Walking the Path of Being Human: Forgiveness, Fatherhood, and Identity with Ethan Richardson
On today's episode, Ethan Richardson passionately takes us through the day to day experiences of loss, forgiveness, fatherhood, and challenging our cultural scripts of career, success and sexual identity.
Referenced in the show:
Ethan’s Bio
A native of the Finger Lakes region of New York, Ethan attended Hamilton College where he majored in philosophy, after which he moved to New Orleans to think deep thoughts and pursue a career in hospitality. In 2003, Ethan took his talents to New York City where he spent a decade deep in the Manhattan restaurant scene, most notably for his role as co-owner of the now closed ‘Inoteca’. Back in Rochester, NY, since 2011, Ethan has operated a firm that provides financial services to small businesses, mostly restaurants. He also teaches Pilates, training students of all ages and abilities at a cozy studio in his home.
Most importantly, Ethan is dad to three great kids, 8, 10 & 10, who make it all worthwhile. Always a teacher and a student, Ethan keeps the ennui at bay still thinking deep thoughts, learning new skills and trades, and trying to make the most of the short time we all have.
IG: @ethanrichardsonpilates
ethanrichardson.org
Full Transcript
Sarah Marshall, ND: Welcome to HEAL. On today's episode, Ethan Richardson passionately takes us through the day to day experiences of loss, forgiveness, fatherhood, and challenging our cultural scripts of career success and sexual identity. I'm your host, Dr. Sarah Marshall.
So let's dive in. I've got Ethan Richardson here who, he and I got to go to high school together and have known each other for a good long period of time.
And, I'm just really grateful and thank you for coming and sharing your story and your journey with the rest of us here. I think that our lives and our minds and our hearts and our bodies are pretty miraculous what we're able to do. And it doesn't really look pretty, actually. There's like all the stuff, so I'm just really grateful for you to share your heart and your life with us. And I'm going to kind of just let you take it away
Ethan Richardson: Thanks very much, Sarah. Great to be back in touch.
Yeah, we actually met middle school technically, but
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, I think we did meet in middle school. Yep, definitely.
Ethan Richardson: Gosh, the healing process, you know. I wouldn't say that I feel especially healed. I think that, I think that so much is attitude, and I think that a lot of healing is, having to look forward.
It all sounds so, like the usual lame advice, but , you can't dwell on the past . You can't be like, why do I have to deal with the loss that other people don't have to deal with? But of course, you know, we don't really know what's going on with anybody.
Only you know what's going on with you. What's that? There's that scale. It's like tells you how likely you are to get sick because of the trauma you've had in your life. You know, like the top things were like divorce, death of a parent, you know, and like several of those things and all of that, you know, relatively short space of time. and you know, for a while it was very weird because I had been in New York city for a long time and, I was making arrangements to try to bring my life back to Rochester.
As it turned out, that like coincided with my father's death, closed on my Rochester house three weeks after he died. And if he had lived another month, he would've at least known he was gonna have my grandson. So it felt very much like everything was happening once. And, and then it felt like certain things just started kind of spiraling for me after that in some ways. But then of course, it was always juxtaposed with the fact that, you know, I had a child, I had this amazing child. I still do. And so then I feel, I feel guilty if I say like this past decade has been nothing but loss.
But I also really try to take the attitude that, my child's not here for me. His job isn't to, his job isn't to fulfill my life or to patch holes. I mean, his job is to become him and, you know, live his life. And, obviously , we're intertwined deeply in that, but you shouldn't be fulfilled by your children necessarily.
And then three years later, my stepfather died. And you'd actually been sick before my father had gotten ill. And, you know, things were starting to go poorly with my businesses in New York City in part, frankly, because I, I had left New York city and I didn't fully appreciate how much my presence was necessary to keep even my partners, doing what they needed to do.
And so there was a lot of resettlement around that. Then my, my marriage came to an end, a very amicable one. I really, I don't know anyone who's. Was able to do it better or is doing better co-parenting than, my ex wife and myself. and I don't say that arrogantly.
But, Yeah. Lots of things that sort of feel like setbacks in the sense, you know, like, you know, I worked so hard, but, and then it's all gets sorta taken away from you. And that's kind of, I guess been the lesson I've had to learn, over the last 10 years or so, which is not exactly what I had in mind for my thirties, but I've had an amazingly rewarding decade, much more so than I can say about my twenties .
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. Yeah. Good. So you've been through a lot of things that like, I mean, both my parents are still alive and I have a divorce in my history as well. and also fairly amicable. all things considered.
We, we definitely didn't hurt each other too much through that process, I think. And, but you know, how do you see that that has shaped you? Having gone through those losses, how has it made a difference in the way that you live your life now?
Ethan Richardson: Well, that's a good question. My wife and I got together; we met at the beginning of college and we were a couple soon after college and certainly, looking back to my teens and early twenties seems like a much, much younger person. So I think being released from that, not necessarily what I would have thought I wanted at the time. It's certainly been a drive to take more advantage and you know-- what things do I really like and what things that I learned to think that I liked because that was part of being a "we"?
You know, it was really nice and healing. I think in a lot of ways actually, to reclaim the personal pronoun. I mean, even though I'm in a relationship now and I had stepdaughters and it's fantastic, but you know, to approach a second serious relationship with that sort of hindsight, I think it's been a good way to go about it, as opposed to saying, you know, like, Oh, what could I have done differently? I mean, that's really, you know, especially when it comes to the loss of a business, you know, what should I have done differently? Should I have, should I have made this decision? Should I not made that decision? Should I not taken that risk? and it's really easy to drive yourself crazy. And I think there was just a whole lot of letting go. and I think a whole lot of that, you know "wow." I still have like actually a lot of working life left, for better or for worse, I don't know if our generation will ever retire.
So yeah, how do you really let go of those things? You know, I've struggled with what forgiveness really is, you know, because someone says, well, you know, just need to forgive and move on.
You're like, okay, yeah, I forgive you. And I feel good about that in the moment. But then, you know, a couple months later, no. So how do you, you know, it's like, it's an ongoing process, obviously. and, yeah. I don't know. I don't want to sound too much like I'm just in therapy right now, but
Sarah Marshall, ND: no, absolutely.
I mean, it's, you know, I, I do think forgiveness is a really key trait, or habit or skill set or whatever we want to call it, you know, in the healing process, both physically, when people are working through resentments against their body. And how did I get this and why me and why do I have to deal with this?
And you know, and also in places in our lives. And it has definitely been an ongoing journey for myself. Where. I have forgiven and let go that layer to whatever degree that I have. And then there's like the next way that I look at it. And the next time, and one of my favorites though, is recently a teacher said one way of looking at forgiveness is for giving as before. So it's like forgiveness is giving back to the way it was before. You know, and returning back to that,
Ethan Richardson: it's really interesting. It's super interesting to me from a word origin point of view. I only recently learned, it seems super obvious after the fact, but the word atone is just at one. So two, a tone has to be at one with yourself.
So that's very interesting. So
Sarah Marshall, ND: You said, I mean, you said you were like, I don't even know that I've healed. So if you were going to kind of look at your experiences, like what do you, what would you like, if you were right now going to actually define it, like what is healing? What does it mean to heal?
Ethan Richardson: Well, I mean, in some sense, to me, healing certainly means that like you don't have to put energy into that room anymore, right? I'm making a bit of a metaphor or something literal but, I think if, and again, all this conventional wisdom, that when you're in the thick of it is not very helpful, but that, staying bitter, not being able to let go of, someone or something or you know, some wrong, you feel, then you're, you're just harming yourself.
Words are much easier than the deeds, you know, I think it's like part of a realization is that it can't just be like an event. I think, people who struggle with substance abuse and then they have to forever be in recovery, you know, they can never be recovered.
and I feel like there's an element of that to healing and certainly to forgiveness that it's like, there's not really an end point, but, I don't know. Something I've come to say about that the death of my father and others and I offer other people losing parents is that, it never gets easy, but it does get easier as you , go round and round and, I don't know. and then I think it's also, there's a lot of sort of forgiveness itself that I struggle with. I guess one of, I did therapy for quite a while until...Well until my therapist did something super unethical and then that felt like another betrayal. But, you know, one thing I did realize is that, as much as well that I'm always kind of disappointed in myself, and try to overcome that and to be like, this is enough, I think is also part of healing.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. Yeah. Another one that I've thrown out there is healing is about returning to wholeness. And we can get very like ethereal about that or we can have it be really literal, which is like you cut your arm and it heals and it returns it back to being whole again.
And so if we take it at a very practical physical level, then we can also apply the same logic to where there's emotional wounding and our own self, you know, forgiving myself for getting a divorce and forgiving myself for the impacts on the people in my life of certain transgressions. It's been something, where am I going to keep carrying this resentment around?
And you know, there are, there's a thousand platitudes, there's a million different things that are out there. Like, you know, resentment is the poison that you swallow trying to kill somebody else, you know? But, but there was this actual physical experience of I, I was the one who kept repeating the story.
Like I would even move into a new community and there was nobody who even knew that about me. The only reason they'd know that is because I opened my mouth and told them again and I'm like, okay, look who's propagating this? And so to actually alter some of the conversations I had about myself, it wasn't just like frosting on top of not doing the work at the deeper level like you've talked about.
It's not just about like, I'm just going to say a new mantra and everything's going to work out. But there was this looking at like. Where am I still holding this against myself and where can I actually return to wholeness and all of who I am?
Ethan Richardson: Well, what's the point where, your wound is just a scar or it's festering underneath, you know?
And I think that it's kind of a big thing for forgiveness and self-forgiveness too. I mean, I haven't touched on it, but I mean, you know, I feel. certainly there are plenty things in my life where I judge myself and where I feel like, clearly I fell down and, didn't do what I wish I had done. But the regret trap too is, you can back it, you can just back it way, way, way, way up. And then, of course, we have an overinflated sense of how much we control in our lives, you know, I like to say you don't choose your choices, which is true to a large extent. You know, we're not, we don't choose to be born.
And that's really probably the biggest determinant right there is the circumstances of your birth and your, the events of your early life. But. You also don't know which choices you think you're making are necessarily the more significant ones. You know, I look to, to college , my Alma mater, and I think, man, I really kind of just chose this cause I got a cool vibe when I drove up there once.
But you know, more than, more than anything, I had real concrete control over. It determined tons of outcomes in my life. But then I also think of other things like without getting into the details of this. If it hadn't been for September 11th, I probably wouldn't have wound up with the woman who became my wife and, I have a child with and so that he wouldn't exist. So I mean, if you get, you know, and then he asked the regret and this sort of counterfactual, if only I'd done this one thing different, but you can only change one this, so, I mean, I think it's really easy to get there and, but it's so important to get out of that mindset.
and just kind of, this is the life you have. Try to try to live it.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. I was actually in a silent meditation retreat. In the last year when this came up, and it's funny, when my mom first proposed me going to one of these retreats, she's been going to retreats for a really long time, and I was like, so wait, let me get this straight.
What do you do? She's like, you sit on a percussion and meditate all day for eight days straight. And I'm like. You gotta be kidding me. Like I just couldn't fathom that that would be like healing or transformational or anything. Well, I've now done four of them and every single time it's like I come out just a whole new human being.
It's really interesting. And one of the things that hit me on the cushion this last time was one of my favorite things to beat myself up with was like, I should have found a way to make it work with my ex husband, I should have, I should have been a bigger person. I should have had more patience. I should have whatever, fill it in.
And so there was this just overarching statement. I should have never gotten divorced and somebody smarter than me. I don't know what, where it came from. Maybe it's my higher self. Maybe it's my divine consciousness. Who knows? Said: okay, look at your life. And if you had never gotten a divorce, look at all the people you would've never met, all of the events that would have never happened. All of like, and it was like, but not even again, not in a conceptual way. I like literally viscerally confronted all of the experiences that I've had and the relationships I've had and the things that I've done now, I would have done other things that's clear, but to just actually confront, if I really am going to keep holding myself to like, that should have never happened, then look at everything else you'd have to give up as well. And it, it did. It just, it flipped. That, and it was like the interconnectedness of the universe all kind of presented itself of like, it's all this big network in this big woven path, and you tug on one string and it's going to impact everything else.
Ethan Richardson: Yeah. but, you know, one of the struggles, of course, you've mentioned meditation, and I've done some similar on a yoga asana on retreats, and it's like, man, that'd be so easy to live my best life here. Get up and be silent, meditate for 15 minutes, and I get a yoga class and I go swim in the ocean.
The diet isn't necessarily what I think is the best diet for me, but you know what? It's like healthier and easier than dealing with regular, everyday life. And it's right here and you just eat it. You know? You know, life is so simple in that way, you know, and you think to yourself all the time, you're like, I want to bring these things home.
You know, and you get home and you try to meditate for a couple of days and you just realize how hard, you know that, that your circumstance does it make it so challenging so many ways. It's like we can be such our better selves if, if our labor wasn't tied to our ability to eat. And
Sarah Marshall, ND: If I don't have to eat or breathe, this could be so much easier.
Ethan Richardson: Well, I mean, you know, that's a, that's an appealing idea, right? Wouldn't it be nice to be, you know, just luminous creatures and you can just send your consciousness wherever you want.
And, But you know, we have to live in the real world. One of the things I tell a lot of my pilates clients. You know, I have a lot of, I have a lot of, a lot of middle aged women that come in and they're constantly comparing themselves to other people.
And this particular celebrity, you know, if your job was to be in shape, if you had access to your own cook and a couple of different nutritionists and you know, like you would look great too, you know, you're not, you're not lesser than, and it's. You know, but where we are, we're forced into, like, most of us have to have a job.
And, I've long said, you know, like if you're at work and you're not hitting lights, at least half the time, you probably doing pretty well. you know, and it's, it's true. It's, you know, having to, having to play by the rules and having to be in the system that we have set up for better for worse, I think makes it harder to be where you want to be.
And also then, you know. If so much of your labor as well, I enjoy this, or I like this, but obviously what's the old joke? It wouldn't be called work unless you'd rather be doing something else. So I don't know. It's a, it's a strange, strange place we live in, culturally right now, I think technologically.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, I mean, that's been, I've done a lot around rearranging my circumstances to create a pretty healthy, happy environment, you know, and I run my practice on video conferencing and I can do it from anywhere and I come home to Rochester and hang out at my parents' house and can still see clients.
And, you know, it's given me a lot of ease in aspects of my life. And then there's other things that are missing like. Oddly, I'm actually at a point in my life without kids and not being married and running my own business. This is going to sound ridiculous, but this is honestly what I've been confronting is like there's not enough of the world demanding on me.
Like I kind of hate that things don't get more interrupted. I don't end up with my days going off track. I've like kind of scheduled and organized myself to death at this point, and so now I've like, and it's not, I'm not even making it wrong, like I've created all this now I'm like. I'm going to go see what messes I can get myself into.
I'm going to go get some new circumstances. You know, and I'm like looking at business partners and other things happening to like kind of like put more things in to start messing it up a bit. Cause it got a little too clean and orderly for me and for the way life is, bringing in that natural organic element again that however it was has, has sort of gone by the wayside.
Ethan Richardson: Yeah, I don't, I can't recall a time where I felt like I didn't have enough interruptions around me.
Sarah Marshall, ND: That's not a common problem. I somehow,
Ethan Richardson: well, I mean, it comes down to like, is your labor rewarding? Right. And for a lot of people it's just not, and so that's, Yeah, I can't fathom being here in Rochester and having to like go to an office, you know, having to like wear an outfit and like go be somewhere. I mean, and again, that comes with like, not doing that for super long time, but when you really kind of stepped back to it, you know, from it, you know, like.
A lot of people are still basically just kind of peasants, but we just have better stuff in our somewhat comfortable in our homes. And you know, I'm a very, very serious, amateur historian and, you know, and then I was also a philosophy major and I consider grad school in philosophy and sort of the way my mind works.
And I spend a lot of time comparing the past to the future. And I virtually present any way, and I feel like. You know, so many things have not changed at all. You know, really, like, the main thing that's changed is the technology, in, you know, 20,000 years, really? And it's like, are we, are we better off for it?
you know, I think about, and I don't mean to romanticize the past. I mean, I love to tell my kids, you know, that like Advil is barely older than I am and you know, antibiotics only go to the second World War. And you know, like if you got a toothache a hundred years ago, well, it got better or you died. And so, I mean, I don't mean to romanticize it, but you know, I think about, agrarian peoples when, you know, all these festivals and so forth, the solstice festivals and all this stuff that we still celebrate, you know, did they have a better time?
You know, were they less stressed out about it? Was it actually relaxing and was it, it couldn't have been like the pressure that we feel today.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah.
Ethan Richardson: You know, is it going to be the perfect Christmas for my kids? Maybe if you try to back off that a little bit, you're still like well, you know, and as a child, that takes forever.
But then as an adult, you're like buds over already. Now I have to clean up and you know, we've certainly, you know, we must have lost something, along the way. or just, you know, I looked down my street and I think, I don't really know any of these people really, and probably don't want to know a lot of them.
And. And I think that, you know, like this is really silly. Like, we don't need to all own our lawnmower, own lawnmower. That's just really capitalism. Like, you know, we could be sharing some things. We could have a community, but we don't. And so, but at the same time, I mean, the availability of information, I would not want to give that up just to be able to learn anything you want at a moment's notice that my kids have never experienced a world where all of human knowledge is available in your pocket all the time. You know, like, I want to tell you about something here. I can show you a video. I can show you a photo. You know, I'm not really sure about that one, you can look it up and I mean that's amazing. people who know how to take advantage of it.
Obviously we're seeing problems with that too. With people that don't really know how to deal with information and good information from bed. But, I certainly feel isolated and I feel more isolated, really, as I've gone through life in a lot of ways. And part of that is like you're talking about working from home, but also children can be isolating.
You know, because really your children determine the adults you start to hang out with, whether it's their activities or their friends. So maybe you luck out and you like your
Sarah Marshall, ND: friend's parents. Yeah.
Ethan Richardson: So, yeah. I don't know. It's, I do think that like. Massive changes are maybe not quite in our lifetime, but soon after.
And I hope that they go like the Star Trek way and not the Mad Max way, but I also, I mean, I do struggle with this existential angst. I don't know if I'm technically gen X or whatever, but, you see all this, like millennials versus boomers stuff in gen X is like, I'm just watching the world burn.
And I do kind of feel this way at this point, because I remember when I was in the second grade, I was in a play about recycling. It's like on everyone's mind. People were excited to recycle. No one was... It wasn't a hoax.
Sarah Marshall, ND: I had t-shirts in, in so I went to, I went to a Montessori like school. it was based in a lot of those principles and we had this whole t-shirt drive and they were all like creatures of the ocean and the sea when we were like saving the whales and that whole, like the changing the practices of fisheries and no longer hunting whales.
And like that was second grade, third grade, that's what we were doing.
Ethan Richardson: And now it's, you know, it's, it's just so discouraging and feel like, basically, like for my whole life, I feel like things have been sort of like, you know, that moral arc of the universe is, it's bending the wrong way.
I mean, like, maybe it'll bend back, but it' s like, it feels like it's got an S-Curve in it right now. And I was joking earlier about , my kids like, are, they're going to grow up to resent being brought into the world? And I'm like, sort of serious and sort of not, but. For me at this point, it's like I'm here and I just kind of wanted to enjoy it.
I used to be so strict about never using a paper towel and no SLS in any my, you know, none of that stuff. Like everything I can think of. And now I look back and I'm like, kinda like to put a little bleach in my towels and like, I see Coca-Cola is once again by far the biggest plastic litter.
And I'm just. I'm too old to be like, I'm going to keep making myself suffer when I feel like it really can't make a difference. I'd rather just support time with my kids and like live our life. And you don't end up with a paper towel once in a while cause it's just a little bit easier. And I feel guilt about that.
But you know, I'm kind of just counting on like Greta and like the Parkland kids. Like maybe then they'll take care of it for us. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, I hear you on that one. I mean, I've definitely, I noticed the places I pick and choose my battles. Like I do a lot of travel and every time I get in an airplane I'm like, all those paper towels I just tried to not use are irrelevant now that I'm flying jet fuel to carry myself across the world, you know?
And it drives me crazy being the food nut that I am, that most of my organic produce comes in indestructible plastic containers now. And I'm just like,
Ethan Richardson: because people care more about it being pretty than,
Sarah Marshall, ND: and like the way it's gotta like be protected and yeah.
Ethan Richardson: You just saw the, you've seen the plastic ban back here in New York right?
Of course, everything that you put in your reusable Wegmans bags now is in single use plastic.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Oh the irony!
Ethan Richardson: That clamshell of pre - washed arugula, that makes life so easy for us. That's gotta be way worse, obviously. Yeah. So you feel like you're like, this is just. You do sort of feel like it's hopeless on some level, but then you, you know, and if I didn't have kids, I'd probably just be bartending on a beach somewhere warm and not worrying about it, but, you know, keep it going because they didn't choose to be born. So I got to do the best I possibly can, you know? And hopefully they'll figure it out.
Sarah Marshall, ND: So, so where do we find the nourishment? Where do we find the satisfaction? Where do you find it?
Ethan Richardson: I mean, definitely like in my kids feels like the most worthwhile thing I've ever done. You know, I mean, look, I love food. I love wine.
I love all of it. It's a, you know, I'm certainly like, I call myself a benevolent hedonist. If it feels good and you're not hurting anyone else, and then go for it. But it always felt like a little bit empty. You know, like essentially like a legal drug dealer. and I can not feel too guilty about that because most people weren't driving.
People have asked me about opening up a restaurant here for years and you know, I have a lot of business concerns, but I have of a real practical concern that everyone here drives. And, you know, I don't really want to be getting people a little bit sloppy and sending them home to drive anymore. So, I mean, really the kids do feel like, even though it's fascinating too, because you get to, there's these things you get to learn that they're interested in.
I never would've, like, I never would've thought about fish keeping again. Like, and it's been super rewarding for me. But then also just, trying to be a thoughtful parent and in really being a thoughtful parenting, just really giving them your all and that feels like very worthwhile labor to me, again, cause they didn't have a choice. And there are a lot of things about my childhood I didn't particularly care for and so if I can do better for other people than that feels like, my stepfather, I think actually met you probably met Gordon,
Sarah Marshall, ND: I did!
Ethan Richardson: Gordon was hugely important in my life. I feel like I would have, things could have gone, like way different and not necessarily for the better without him coming in when he did. And, you know, to be able to step in for my stepdaughters and be able to offer what I can now, you know, like I've got plenty of time and intention. I'm also lucky again to work from home that I don't, we don't worry about things like, childcare and like, usually I can always kind of make the time when the kids are here and, other than that, I mean, novel experiences, like travel has always been hugely important to me. and, and adrenaline. Like I really, I look for, I definitely look for adrenaline. But also your satisfaction projects. Like, my father was in the trades and I've always had a hand in the trades and I get a lot of satisfaction out of that. I won't let anyone touch either of my cars anymore. I've always got something extra I'm renovating.
So yeah, that's kind of where I find it is in trade, craft, in the kids and, and always learning like I was, you know, whether it's just this, YouTube gets a bad rap and obviously there's lots of garbage and there are lots of amazing content creators,
Sarah Marshall, ND: There's unbelievable things out there,
Ethan Richardson: passionate about really cool things.
I mean. You know, I've learned so much about things that, like, I didn't, wasn't really interested in formal education necessarily. You know, more about physics and math and all this, and it's just, you know, and it's so easy to sort of just take it all in. And I do find that incredibly satisfying. I mean, there's the, there's always that sort of thought in the back of your mind that, you spend a whole lifetime accumulating all this and then you know, it goes away, but , that's
Sarah Marshall, ND: for our own entertainment and, you know. Yeah, absolutely.
Ethan Richardson: So now that's pretty much, yeah, like I told you, I mean, I winters in Rochester, I, and then I started skiing and all of a sudden it was like, where's this been my whole life? so yeah, I think it, it, and it, I mean, it's one of the most stereotypical, if you're feeling down or whatever else, you know, get some exercise.
But it really is so important, and it's just so truly therapeutic. I mean, we always turn to food and then we usually feel bad about it afterwards, but I mean, you know, exercise endorphins are about as good as it gets. So yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: I've definitely been exploring a new level of that. I've started weightlifting for the first time ever in my life.
Never, ever. I mean, I'd cross train, I'd prepare for things I'd, I ran, I did a lot of trail running, but, yeah, just this January for the first time ever. I'm literally like lifting weights on a regular basis with a trainer. And, and it's been really remarkable to see, like there's the physicallness that's happening for sure and you know what? I'm getting up at five 30 to go be at the gym at 6, which was never my MO at all. Not interesting at all. And it, but that's really where it fits. And the days that I work out are like now becoming considerably happier, more fulfilled, more energized than the days that I don't. And you, I mean, if you told me I was going to be saying this a year ago, I would have been like, no way. So that's a big shift.
Ethan Richardson: The one thing I can not overcome is my, what? What's the official word for it? My chronotype. I'm just not, I'm not in here and it's, I hate the, I hate society's judgment around it. I'm like, you're not better just because you, you know, you get up in the morning, but also there is a part of you that's, "mornings are awesome!" I wish they came easily to me, but they just,
Sarah Marshall, ND: that's okay.
Ethan Richardson: It's not in me, but,
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, no, I've flown some of my clients mind sharing the chronotype because they've finally been able to just accept themselves biologically for something they've made themselves wrong for their whole lives, and, and I wanted to be a lion so bad and I'm a bear.
I am standard American average bear. I got, like I, I, if I left my own devices, I would sleep til seven and I would go to bed at 10 and I eat three square meals a day. I get it from my dad, but my mom and my sister, they are totally like seriously programmed night owls and my mom is actually going through a whole change where she's actually not anymore.
Like, she's like perfectly happy to go to bed at 10:30 at night, but there's this part of her that's like, that was used to be mybest hours between 11 and one in the morning, you know? And she feels like she's losing something. And you know, we talked about that.
Ethan Richardson: I mean, I've done like another, I think part of healing to that was like, I'm having to learn like what things you liked.
And then like, whether it's like you'd like to associate with your personality, whether you really just liked the thing yourself. You come to a point in life where it's not really doing you any good anymore, but you don't want to let go. You know? Like I love being like, I felt cool when I was up til midnight, or, you know, it's, I think so much of nourishment and healing it... It has so much to do with identity, you know, like self identity, which things matters, which don't. I am, actually one of things I've been saying to one of my stepdaughters for a long time, it's like their father is like, vegetarian. It's very much like it's a part of my personality, vegetarian.
But my one stepdaughter, she likes to eat meat, she likes to try everything and I was like, you know, you don't have to. You can just let go of a food label. You don't have to be a vegetarian or an omnivore or a pescatarian, or whatever, you can not let your personality be defined by what you eat and then you don't have to feel bad about your food choices.
And I think that that's like, that's such a tough thing for so many of us because it's like, well, I am this. Or like you feel it. Like I put a whole equitable decade of my life into it, so like that's not there anymore. Then where does, what does that leave me? I guess something else too, I experienced with divorce and I don't know, maybe, I don't know the details of your relationship or if this will ring familiar, but that like when, you know, someone says like, I don't want to be in this relationship anymore and we start talking about things and, you know, things coming out that people maybe kept to yourself and you start to have this whole sort of like loss of self then like, Oh my God, or all these things I've thought about myself in the past 10 years and my perception has been all wrong. Am I like, am I totally different person?
You know, and or, or is it that, you know, this person doesn't want to be in a relationship anymore and they're sort of skewing, you know, thing they're not skewing skewing cause that's negative connotation, but that their, their current perception is altering their perception of the past and in a negative way.
And I, I didn't really spend a lot of time trying to figure out like. Who am I and who have I been? And like is my self narrative been like way off base and that can be very, very unsettling. yeah. But I sort of feel like you're kind of navigating my way through that. But yeah,
Sarah Marshall, ND: No, I think it's really powerful. I mean, the places that I can see a lot of healing or whatever word we want, you know, the word I used to use for it and still will is transformation. Just where I've like continued to deepen. And for me transformation is like letting go of those places. Like I was a vegetarian, born and raised, and it was an identity.
I loved being able to tell people that I'd never had a hamburger like it was like, and I got juice out of it. People were like, Oh wow. You know, and like, so when I was 25 and I started naturopathic school and it became crystal clear from a health standpoint, I was super undernourished and I was completely addicted to sugar and it was like not working for me at all.
I changed to paleo and I grieved letting that identity go, you know? And now I have the tendency to say, I am, you know, I'm a paleo like oriented person. I generally eat meat and vegetables except when I don't, which like, there's lots of times when that's the case. Do you know? And, and similarly. As I've gone through several different stages of physical healing, emotional healing, it has been being willing to let go of attachment to a category or a label and opening myself up.
And that also brings in, it can be confusion. It can be like, Oh, but you can't even tell. But like I've stayed in it more from a standpoint of like. curiosity and, and allowing for things. I mean, right now the big one for me is around relationships and it's like, I wouldn't even put myself necessarily on the continuum between straight, bi, or gay, but I'm actually letting go of that intimacy, that human to human connection, cuddling on the couch movie watching.
You know, there is a point where it becomes a tip between physical intimacy and sexual expression, but like I'm just been questioning why am I limiting myself to 50% of the population where there's intimacy everywhere I go, there's love and connection everywhere I, where I am, I, I've had this like concept.
Now I'm just playing with letting go of the language and the labels around it.
Ethan Richardson: I mean, I'll, I'll share with you and then I might not want you to share with the world, but like I, one of the things my divorce was discovering that I'm like, totally bisexual.
I'm like not right in the middle, obviously, like where even trying to figure that out, but I was like, Oh my God. And then it was trying to figure out what had kept that blocked and I don't know, you know, I don't know what it is. I mean, and it doesn't like, it doesn't bother me at all, but then I also feel like, should I be publicly out or whatever to be an advocate. But at the same point, it's like, that almost feels selfish to me though too, because it's not, I, you know, I still strongly prefer women. Like I don't like, I don't wish I could be in a relationship with men. And also like if I never had a sexual encounter with a man again in my life, I wouldn't feel like I was missing something. So it's like, yeah, you know? But then also, I mean, a huge part of it is still the, like to say , I'm a bi-guy is like, you know, it's, I joked for a long time to like, you go to a bar and you see two women having a kiss and everyone will be like, oh, they're just drunk. They're having a good time. But if you saw two guys having a kiss in the bar, everyone would be like, oh, he's been a fag his whole life.
So I don't need to expose myself to that, but at some level I feel like I feel bad because I'm like, and I feel like I see so many men where I'm like, this is clearly. You know
it's in there and they don't know what to do with it, or they don't even realize it in like, Oh man. It's like, it's not a big deal. A person, just a person. If you're sexually attracted to a person.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Go for it. Yes.
Ethan Richardson: Yeah,
Sarah Marshall, ND: And that's similarly been what I've been just just recently, like it was just sort of like, I woke up one day and I was like, why am I limiting myself? I keep saying I want to create love in my life. I want to have intimacy. I want to have my life full of that experience, and yet I'm like 50% of the population. Nope. Can't be you. Just simply because it's like, and I just have like. Allowed for it to arise. You know? And, and it's been interesting to see how that has just shifted even the way that I interact. I used to even say like, I don't feel the same way for women that I do men. I don't get the same body sensations until I stopped judging and assessing it. And then I also notice I don't do the same action. So I started taking different actions. And next thing you know, I'm with this woman and I'm like I'm having like butterflies, like I'm having these experiences that I said I didn't think I had because I dropped the context around it.
Ethan Richardson: Well, I think that's it. We don't realize how constructed, even those of us that think we're outside. But like, I mean, I know... And feminism is such a difficult label. I mean, I remember I had one client once that was in the hard sciences and like, just horror stories about, you know, less pay, you know, sexual harassment, all that stuff. And like, I also had her mother as a client, her mother's like, well, she loves you so much. She's like, it's like he treats me like I'm a real person.
I'm like, that's so sad that like, that's a big deal. You know, it shouldn't be, but I also know so many, like very feminist women who very much still want to be married. And I'm like, marriage is like, it's a, it's like a bronze age property contract about who's going to get your goats. And it's, you know, we, I think we do just not realize how entrenched that is, even for those of us who are like, I don't care about those old fashioned rules are not, so it's, I don't know. It's really interesting. I have this kind of image in my mind that like we try to get outside the framework, trying to get outside the box. And it's like maybe sometimes we can squint over the top of it a tinny bit, but you can never really have the God's eye view or whatever you might want to call it.
So,
Sarah Marshall, ND: yeah. And I mean, marriage has been an interesting one. I mean, it's not really on the table right now, so I don't have to worry about it too much, but I can see reinventing the contract. I don't want to inherit the historical version of it, but I can actually see like, there is power in my promises and there's power in my word.
And also, and honestly, when I got married the first time, when I've gone back and looked at like what we actually promised each other, what our actual values were, it was a lot about us living our best life and being there to support each other in that. And I will stand by that the rest of my life, even though we're not actually married anymore.
Ethan Richardson: Yeah, and I mean, and I mean certainly the idea of commitment and commitment ceremony and all that is, but then you also, I remember the, like my first marriage, the timing of my first marriage, not that I didn't, was literally like, I needed health insurance. We could have health insurance for free if we were married.
We already had a dog and had been living together, choosing to get married when we, and it's like. That shouldn't be what it's about. You know? Is that like, I don't want the government involved in my relationships, I mean, one thing I will say is that life is, if you have an open mind, if you have an inquisitive mind, if you, if you like, if you open yourself up to life, it is fascinating.
You know, it's like, I do think that like, that Buddha's life was mostly suffering. And, like that's sort of where my morals evolved from that, like none of us chose to be here, so let's start to diminish the unpleasantness as much as possible for everyone. But you know, it, it is so fascinating.
The world is so rich and there's just. Just really aren't all that many things out there that aren't interesting if you
Sarah Marshall, ND: allow for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You know, and I have, I have clients that have certain physical circumstances that may never change. They might, we don't know. Is it going to be the miracle?
Who knows what, where that alters. But then the healing journey becomes a lot about asking the question of who are you going to be given that those circumstances are there, are you going to have this continue to keep stopping you from doing the things you want to do? Or is it just time to take your disease underneath your arm and drag it with you?
We're going skydiving, like you're coming with me.
Ethan Richardson: It's funny. Maybe this will be like a relatively good bow tie, but, One of Joseph Pilates, like most often quoted things he wrote down, he didn't write a ton, was he said that, you know, physical fitness is the first requisite of happiness.
And like one of the things I love about being a Pilates teacher and like what I bring to my clients is like, I am not a fitness nut. You guys like, I don't like, I love to do Pilates and I'm like, but I don't, like, I don't want to be at the gym. Like I don't want to be spending my whole life exercising. Like, and so people I think take that, you know, the first requisite had happened to means you have to be really fit, but what I think Pilates really meant and then I think other of his writing is that it's hard to enjoy your life if you're not comfortable in your skin. You know? Whether that's, like if you have, I don't know, whatever it is, like my autoimmune disease attacks my mild fascia, so like, so I have some, I have some , neuromuscular stuff I have to deal with and some pain. And it's like, you know, yeah. Like a lot of things I want to do like, I don't play the guitar as much as I used to or want to necessarily cause maybe gonna hurt, you know, or whether it's, if someone's trying to lose weight, it's not that, you know, being skinny is better. Like the best argument for that is like, hey, you're gonna be able to enjoy your body. There's gonna be less pressure on your joints. Like, you know, you're gonna do later in life. You're gonna be less likely to be impaired and still be able to do things you want to do. And I think, you know, I really do think that's so important, is figuring out how to be uncovered to be comfortable in your skin and whether that means making changes that you can control, or whether it just means that, you know, you have to learn how to accept that this is what you got.
Sarah Marshall, ND: That's a brilliant place for us to close. I love it. Wise wisdoms of the Pilates instructor. Yeah.
Ethan Richardson: Well, this is a lot of fun. Thank you so much.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for sharing all of the aspects. You've had a big, big life since we last got to hang out. It's pretty awesome.
Ethan Richardson: Yeah I'm sure you have too.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, for sure. I appreciate it very, very, very much, and thanks for sharing your story and your heart with us.
Ethan Richardson: Yeah. Thank you very much, Sarah. It was great.
Sarah Marshall, ND: You bet! Bye.
Thanks to today's guest, Ethan Richardson, for his passion and zest for living a conscious life. You can learn more about finding your own healing by going to SarahMarshallND.com or following me on Instagram @Sarah MarshallND. Big thanks to our music composer, Roddy Nikpour and our editor, Kendra Vicken.
And thank you for being here. Until next time.