Healing Systemic Candida and the connection between Body & Soul with Physical Therapist Jeannie Sajonas
On today's episode, Jeannie Sajonas takes us through her journey of healing systemic candida to the importance of deep breaths, to the body as our ultimate record keeper of our soul's path through her experience as a body worker and physical therapist.
Referenced in the Show:
"The Power of Focusing: A Practical Guide to Emotional Self-Healing” By Ann Weiser Cornell
Dave Asprey and Robb Wolf
Jeannie’s Bio:
Physical therapist with 30 years experience. Creator of Sajonas Method of Fascia Restoration. Inventor, Theralign, a self fascia massager. Owner of Align Now PT. A practice dedicated to relieving chronic pain through fascia restoration. Lives in Denver with her partner, Ashley Owen, and her 2 sons, James and Peter. alignnowpt.com
Full Transcript:
Sarah Marshall, ND: Welcome to HEAL. On today's episode, Jeannie Sajonas takes us through her journey of healing systemic candida to the importance of deep breaths, to the body as our ultimate record keeper of our soul's path through her experience as a body worker and physical therapist.
I'm your host, dr. Sarah Marshall.
(music)
Jeannie Sajonas: I think I hear a couple of different camps going on. Like some people are really overwhelmed and kind of really still in shock in a way, like, right. Like kind of like, at able to get motivated, not able to, to move forward, like still feeling kind of lost in a way. And then there are a camp of people where wow, I'm going to use this time productively.
And try to do things that I don't normally do, whether it's taking care of myself for exercise. And for myself personally, I kind of more, some days I am like, okay, we're going to do something different today and motivate. And, and then certain days, like the other day, I literally woke up at 8 in the morning , just stayed in bed, had conversations with Ashley, and probably like from eight to 10, I was awake and then went back to sleep and then slept till 3 in the afternoon.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Oh my gosh. Probably don't normally get to do that hardly. So
Jeannie Sajonas: What had happened is I've had the boys, like James is just turned 10 and Peter is 14 and I had
Sarah Marshall, ND: I can't believe Peter's 14.
Sorry.
Jeannie Sajonas: And he's saying now I'm really old. I'm really 14 now. And he's taller than me now. And when the whole shutdown thing happened, I spoke with my ex husband and said, you know, I can't work. I am, I'm just going to be home. And with Ashley being immunocompromised, here's the thing: either they stay with me the whole time. Like we can't do the back and forth. Like, normal families could. Right. He's not social distancing. Okay. And you could have the boys, but know that I won't be able to take them back. Right. And so for the first, for the first month he was okay with it, you know? And then finally he was just like, I'm ready.
Like he finally took James like on Tuesday. And Wednesday was when I had like, wow, no one is like, Peter is self sufficient. He can go and get ramen or make himself some eggs or get cereals and milk and James tends to be like, you know, he's younger. So he has that. He's an expectation. What time are you getting up? Where's my breakfast? What are we making now? What, what, like, he puts me on task. What activity could we be doing to keep me busy? Right. And entertained and when he left, I didn't, you don't really realize how tired you are until you have an opportunity to rest, right? And I just had this big, massive opportunity to rest and Ash was like I just left the bed because you were just out cold, you know? And then I woke up and I was like, that was probably the first time I felt really refreshed. And, and I said to him, I don't, I didn't really realize how tired of loss until I could like finally get that level of sleep. And I think that's all of us.
We like mostly, we are running around, there are things to do. And there's there's just, we have, we're programmed rehab. We get up, we feed the kids. If you have kids get ready for work, you know, and all of it, but like really just the underlying tiredness of, or of never, never really getting fully replenished.
You've seen it.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Oh yeah. I mean, that's almost every single client that comes in. They are like, yeah, I sleep fine. And then I actually, I I've been known to prescribe days of bedrest like three, the longest I've ever prescribed as nine days of bed rest, which means doing nothing.
Jeannie Sajonas: And I imagine that's so hard for a lot of people
Sarah Marshall, ND: super hard, and once they get it and they do it, there's all kinds of breakthroughs that come out of it.
And usually in the world of, I had no idea how exhausted I was. I like when I prescribed six or seven days, usually they sleep the first three or four days straight, like 15-16 hours a day. And they had no idea how depleted their body was. And then once that settles in and I can imagine people listening are like how I could never take that kind of time off.
And that's the first thing they have to work out is like literally, you know, and the way I say it is, well, you can either do it now. Or you can do it later when you get put in the hospital with something and then you have to sit still for two weeks or three weeks or whatever it is. Like doing it now is one of the best preventions, because it's how our body heals is in rest and in sleep.
Jeannie Sajonas: Yeah. I really, I really love that because I really don't think we really, we think we're replenishing and you have to get, I, you know, I go to bed fairly early and I get, you know, I really try, I really to get eight hours of sleep. But I've been depleted most of my life I've had, you know, my healing journey is I've had, I didn't know, until after my, the birth of my second child, that I, I had candida and systemic candida and I just thought that it's normal to be out cold for two, three hours in the middle of the day.
That was just my life. Right. I I'd I'd have good energy in the morning. Come one or two o'clock I'm ready to lay down and, and, and it really felt everything either felt super hot or super cold for me. Right. Like I, my ex husband used to call me, you had such narrow comfort range, right? Like I was, I was cold if it's 69 degrees and I'm, I'm hot if it's 82.
And then it always, if somebody kinda like said hello to me and knowingly and touching me, like I was, I was in pain. And it always felt like my even, I was so tired. Imagine being so tired that even the weight of your clothes feel heavy, like just, I could feel it. And then also walking, walking for me. It's interesting, cause I know that moving is good for you, but when you're so depleted movement is not nourishing. No. It's actually, it was actually, for me, kind of like, almost like punishing myself more where even walking to me felt like walking through water versus air, you know, like, and like having, it always felt to me, like I was expending so much energy just to move through life, you know, and it wasn't until I went through like really four months. I had to pass my, my life for four months. At the time we lived in San Diego and we, we put our life on pause and rented out the house and that's how we kind of had a little bit of money and we went to Bali. And my job in Bali was to go to yoga, eat organic food, and get massages. And it sounds luxurious except the massages were really painful.
Cause you know, raking up adhesions and stuff like that, you know, and that's really like people tell me, how did you grow up as a physical therapist? How did you gravitate towards body work and stuff? And because I said that really, it wasn't until all of the adhesions and all the scarring were, were worked out out of my tissue, that I started to really feel like energy and not be in constant pain.
And that's why I'm a big believer of bodywork. And the tweak that I did with the bodywork is what's. How can I do it? So that way I'm activating the body natural or natural healer, the parasympathetic nervous system. Yeah. And that cost it because when something is painful, you're still ramping up the sympathetic nervous system, plight and fight response.
Right. And so the body work that I've developed, I've now since called it Sajonas method, because it's my, just my way of working. Yeah. It's just really working. It's it's really more restoring the body's natural capacity to be hydrated. And to be supple and working with the body as opposed to, kind of like pummeling in submission, so to speak.
I think a lot of the way we approach healing is so masculine, right? Like we're going to, you're going to do what I want and I'm going to give you this. And it's like there's almost no partnership.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, no, there is no, and that's, that's something that I ended up slowly introducing to my clients and community. And one of the ways I have introduced it is if your body was a family member of yours, what would your relationship be like? Hmm, like, do you talk to them at all? Any idea what like is important to them?
Jeannie Sajonas: What did they
Sarah Marshall, ND: Call them bad names? And hate them and be mad at them all the time. Do you just ignore them when they're yelling and screaming at you?
Cause like our bodies can be yelling and screaming at us in so many ways in our tendency is it's a status symbol in our current culture. To power through and to be able to have a quote, high tolerance of pain and to be really busy and to like numb all that out. It's it's, it's part of how, you know, you hear people like, Oh yeah, I have a super high pain tolerance and I can handle anything.
And like, that's considered this really great thing.
Jeannie Sajonas: It's a badge of honor.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Exactly. But it's then, you know, so getting people and I mean, I had to go through this process too, and there was lots of things I hated about my body and I grew up. You know, with a lot of chronic illness with asthma and breathing problems and part of how I got through really bad asthma attacks was disassociation.
Jeannie Sajonas: Yes.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And at the time it was a good survival mechanism because I couldn't breathe and my body was in pain. And so I just check out into my imagination. And then as I grew up though, discovering my deepest held pathology, like I still deal with chronic constipation and it's literally, like, I just don't feel it.
Other people get constipated and they're like in so much pain. I don't feel anything. There's still some nervous system stuff to wake up with between me and my large intestine. We're still, we're still working it out. I've, I've become friends with many of my other organs and me and my large intestine are still like a little contentious and there's some stuff in there.
And, you know, and then we get into the emotional parallel of large intestine pathology is a lot about being willing to let go of things. And not holding on (inaudible)
Jeannie Sajonas: it it's it's really, I know that's one thing is I think for even most, a lot of people, they don't even realize that the body is communicating. Everything is a communication. Pain is communication; discomfort is a communication. And like you've said, what, what, what a lot of people, or how we cope sometimes is we ignore it.
Right. Like I ignored my body. I just thought that was just the way it was. That was just the way it was, right? For me, one of the great deep discovery is like, yeah, my body is communicating and when I give it what it needs, it actually responds. It's amazing how... it's like, I love our capacity. We are so hardwired for healing and it's, you know, given the right things that it needs, it really responds well.
Imagine like I really, so my candida is really because I grew up in the Philippines and, and every year I remember distinctly every year, the whole city would be flooded. I've even had a couple of occasions for our whole house was underwater. And so imagine like living basically in a mold infested city, that was just my environment and me not knowing that I was allergic to it, right? And, and really even so, like I lived in the Philippines for the first 20 years of my life. And even given that. It took until I was what? 40 until I was really so broken down that I was nonfunctional. You could, you could hear the resilience of the body, right? Like having all of these chronic, chronic, chronic condition.
Not getting what it needs and, and still when I pause just for that four months, I was like had energy, like lost weight, my hair started growing back. My nails started like, and it's deduct to me. It's just, if anybody's hearing this is, we are hardwired for healing and our body has a capacity to heal itself.
But you have to give it the pause that it needs and what it needs. Like whether it's rest, whether it's proper nutrition, whether it's conversation like so much also could also be sorted out through even just giving it a voice and speaking it. Right. And, and, and. And so much of it also is in our bodies left in our bodies, right?
Like there's like the aches and pains and stuff. so I work with Ash and he has chronic neck pain and shoulder pain and stuff like that. And sometimes when I work with him, he says to me, I don't know what you're doing, but it's almost other life like you're touching on. Right.
And so to me, sometimes our body, if you've ever heard the phrase, you know, everything is always recorded somewhere. Whether it's Akashic record, I think our Akashic record is actually in our bodies. It has our recording and remembrance of everything. And sometimes you could touch onto it and stuff. I don't know, like there's just, there's just aspects of my abilities. That's almost kind of getting woken and up, you know, the longer, the longer I am in the conversation of healing, myself and healing other people.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. Yeah. I've had that experience too, or just like, I keep taking my own body and now it's not just, when I say body now, it's all of it. It's
Jeannie Sajonas: mind, body, spirit,
Sarah Marshall, ND: my soul, my spirit, my personality, my loves my, you know, all of it.
Like the more I deepen into all of it. I learn new things. I discover new things and then I can take my people there that work with me and, and they teach me things. They bring me things, you know, I have this, brand new client. I'm so excited. He's a, I'm going to maybe even say it wrong. I think a mycologiest, they're like an amateur mushroom hunter, he's like really into it.
And he's been studying mushrooms for 40 years and I realized like I came through natural medicine from predominantly kind of a. The things that resonated with me the most in the beginning was, was more the integration of the different pieces like that we have muscles, joints, organs, glands, and that they all would work together in concert.
Like there's no people are always like, Oh, well, do you think my headaches are related to my stomach problem? And my answer is always, yes, it's all related. It's you're in one body. Your body can only ever have one thing going on. And so yes, they're related. So that part, and then homeopathy was what I was first introduced to and the most passionate about. So things more on the subtle, energetic realms, I've had to fall in love with herbal medicine, plants. That's a, which I'm sure there's some Akashic record thing between me and plants, but like I had colleagues that just loved herbalism and they would get into it and wildcrafting, and I mean, maybe that's that bit of, I don't have the green thumb, you know, is,
Jeannie Sajonas: my son
Sarah Marshall, ND: would grow plants. My mom would grow plants. What's that?
Jeannie Sajonas: Or on the flip side of it, you could have been a witch they've been handed down because you were the herbalist in another life,
Sarah Marshall, ND: You know, and that, I mean, when we get into the whole conversation of the memories that are held in our body and whether it's past lives or, or just a consciousness that we have of the time that's come before our ancestral memories in us, however, that works.
I'm actually certain that I have had a lot of energetic history of persecution for practicing putting me in herbal medicine or what we now call alternative medicine. And I think there was a lot of that in my body. And, and so interestingly enough, I've only recently started to like really get excited about plants in a new way and mushrooms, I realize they've just been an enigma. Like, we didn't really talk about them that much in school. It was like, Oh, reishi is good for the immune system in Lion's Mane's good for brain and concentration. And like, there was like a couple mentions, but nothing significant. And, I actually just watched a documentary, the fantastic fungui, and now I'm like, I want to learn everything.
And so I have this new client, he came to me for, interestingly enough, we think he has a mold issue. The parallel that he has this love for this, the kingdom of fungui, and yet it may be part of his pathology. So there's going to be something really interesting to sort out about that. But yeah,
Jeannie Sajonas: The thing about pathology regardless though, is like, if you, if your body is strong enough, it stops being a pathology.
Mm. So when I went through my journey and part of my cleanse for four months was no yeast products, no beer, nothing fermented in all of it. And so I did that major, major cleanse. James is now 10, so about nine years ago. And I'm back to all of the things, right. And so for what I want your listeners to hear is something doesn't have to be forever.
Right. If you're really super, even like even, I think allergies really like if you strengthen your immune system enough that you would have the capacity to do it. Now I know for myself, if I go overboard on the bread and the sugar, sugar because it just feeds the yeast. I could feel myself getting puffy.
And so for me, there's like, I would always have it. And there's a place for me to always just be mindful of it. So just, just really listening to, Hey, you've overdone it, you need to just cut back a little bit.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Exactly.
Jeannie Sajonas: But I think that given the right again, given the right resources, I think your body could actually withstand a lot more things.
And if you look so many people have so many autoimmune stuff, allergies, digestive issues like, like insomnia, like all of that stuff.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Migraine headaches? Yeah.
Jeannie Sajonas: And I just think it's because we are so depleted and continually to be depleted, we don't really listen to our bodies. Right. Right. So Ashley tells me like how, how you explain people with like such chronic conditions.
So I, I treat primarily people with chronic pain, right. And I would say, well, if you look at how we treat our bodies, we are in constant fight or flight, except it's not really the tiger running after us anymore, right? It's the alarm first thing in the morning. So we don't normally we don't even wake up naturally when our body's ready to wake up.
Right. We wake it up and we're groggy or sleepy. So we jump started with caffeine, which now. Which is like very much adrenal, ramping up, it ramps up your adrenals, right? To get, to get you awake, to get you your cortisol level. And then you go through your day and you don't really, oftentimes it's not we are. I consider myself incredibly lucky that my life, my work is actually my life and I love it. And, and people tell me all the time, that's not common. Most people just grow up like, you know, the drudgery of what they have to do and stuff like that. And so that's depleting, that's not nourishing. Right.
So. Just, you could hear the many levels of depletion and the unnatural patterns that we take on and upon life. And then of course we're tired, so we eat more sugar and more caffeine in the afternoon, right? And then come and AF like late in the afternoon, we start maybe drinking our wines to start helping.
Right,
Sarah Marshall, ND: which is another source of sugar. And it also has the inhibitory effect. It starts to slow our brains down. Yeah.
Jeannie Sajonas: It's to calm ourselves down. And for some people, like I have so many clients that they can't really sleep unless they're doing some, some stuff, some aid to help them sleep. Right. And so we, our bodies are not functioning the way it normally functions.
We've manipulated in such a way and for so much for such a long time that eventually it's just not, it's not going to work with you anymore. Yeah. Like, no matter what you do to it. So I love the work that you do because you really, it really is fundamentally you're getting underneath. Like, what does the, what does this body need?
And let's get what it needs. And I love that. So Western medicine, I love it. I think if you have an emergency, it's amazing, but I don't really think it knows how to do wellness. I think it's a sickness form of medicine, if that makes sense, but they don't really know how to do it. Like how do I get, a lot of it still is here's a pill and it should take care of it, which it doesn't. Right, right. And that's why eventually I think people find their way to homeopathic medicine, naturopathic medicine, functional medicine. It really is getting to the root cause and then fixing the root cause of the issue. And then getting you back to proper health and, yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: So when you talk about like getting in communication with your body and listening to your body, like, that sounds great. But how do we do that? Like what, what does that look like?
Jeannie Sajonas: I had to listen to my body when it wouldn't move for me anymore. That's really how it started, like I was flat on my back. And even there are times there are times where even lifting my eyelids were like, like a lot of work. Right. And I hope that people don't get to that point. I think for one thing I have always, even before I was completely depleted, I was constantly in pain. Hmm. I was chronically in pain.
Like something was always hurting. I always had neck pain or back pain or, you know, and no amount of yoga or Pilates helped it along. Right. and when I finally got curious about why am I in constant pain? Right. So like asking like, I guess asking the why of something. Huh? That's interesting. How long have I had that?
I've had that for a long time. And what it was is just, my body was just chronically inflamed. And so the inflammation over time changes over into adhesions and adhesions over time cause scarring. And that was the root cause of my pain. Yeah. So , one ask. Just even the curiosity of how long have I had a migraine.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yes.
Jeannie Sajonas: Right.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And it's, I often ask people, you know, when do you think this started? And they'll initially answer with whenever they were diagnosed and I'm like, but that's when you found out what it, what the name was. When did you first start noticing things changing in your body? And when I actually say it that way, they go, Oh, well, I mean, I don't know.
Since I was a teenager.
Jeannie Sajonas: Yes.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And then what one of my mentors taught me is that all autoimmune disease actually starts before the age of seven, because the way our immune system develops, our external, like our boundaries of our body are still finishing their development process until we're 7; at age seven is when our lungs and our gut has completely finished its development process and it's closed now, cause like babies have leaky gut on purpose in order to be able to take in immune cells from, breast milk. And so it ends up being that I can find either a really bad viral infection that never got resolved or got suppressed or, physical instances of trauma or emotional instances of trauma, sometime around age seven or younger in every single person that presents with an autoimmune disease.
And so like you can find roots. And so then I start saying like, all right, well, so how long have you had this? They're like, I dunno, 45, 50 years, 30 years. You know, when we start to look from there, I think asking the questions is really important. Like when I create that conversation of imagine your body is a family member or a friend of yours.
I say family member, because friend implies that we like, like the person and that's not always that, but we have family members that we were just stuck with. We were born with them, whether we like them or not. Right. So like, you know...
Jeannie Sajonas: I love this, because friend implies that you created a relationship.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yes, no, this is, this was, you're stuck with us. You just wound up this way. Right. And, and then to actually open the dialogue. And for some people I encourage them to do it through journaling is an easy way to start where you literally write a question down on the page and listen for the answer and you'll be amazed how much goes up.
Jeannie Sajonas: So one of the, so one of the fun things about being a quote unquote, healer is, I ended up partnering with other healers. I love talking to you. And we basically are just like, we could talk all day about anything, right.
Sarah Marshall, ND: It's gonna be the longest episode of all my podcasts because we could talk forever.
Jeannie Sajonas: We could talk forever, because I don't have to explain anything to you. And so when it was like, so one of my, one of my really good friends and she's also a healer is Jean and she's a somatic psychologist. And in her work now is actually mediation. Should she, And I worked on her and I've seen her work and she does somatic.
It's basically a somatic conversation. Right. And so one day I said to her, I wonder what it would be like to have you facilitate this Somatic conversation and me facilitate the body conversation through the fascial work, right? Hmm. So we created it's, the process itself is called, Embodied Soul Journeys.
So basically you're awake fully in your body, but then having like, you know, some people would, would journey and stuff, but you're fully embodied. And so she uses crystals and sound and just the gentle conversation with the body. And oftentimes what I've discovered is people's bodies, their reaction is: let me back up. What she says is tell your body that you are here for it now fully, and that you're not going to be leaving it. And that you're always here for it, for it only. And then we wait for an answer. And the answer often is I do not trust you. I'm sure you've heard that. Right.
Sarah Marshall, ND: I have heard that from clients when I have them do the journey work. And the very first thing
Jeannie Sajonas: is the body answers.
Sarah Marshall, ND: The body says,
Jeannie Sajonas: there's this distinct just the body. Yeah. And you,
yeah,
but somewhere along the line, there's a disconnection in the dissociation and the distrust. And the only time we would give attention to the body is when it stopped working.
Sarah Marshall, ND: It's in so much pain. It's so intense.
Yeah.
Jeannie Sajonas: And so in a way, it's like, Really? Really? You're paying attention to me now?
Sarah Marshall, ND: I know
like, again, like that friend, that's like, Oh, sure. 25 years later, now you want to talk about this?
Like
Jeannie Sajonas: what you're talking about. Right. And no, didn't when I facilitated, so now I'm to the point where I'm teaching what I know to other healers and practitioners and in one end, just the funny thing about like gathering women together, it's just, it's so organic and something else happens.
Right. And so we ended up, imagine being one person on the table and one, two, three, four women attending to you fully. Right. And there was something so ancient about it. It felt natural. There was no conversation, but everybody was moving in unison and in sync and, and the feedback from the person at the table.
It's so fascinating. Cause everybody's touches different. And yet the process feels unified and whole. And then we just started unwinding, like pulling and like just following what the body wants. There was like, there really was, the body was in charge and as a person facilitating and just holding the space, there was really an authentic need for the body to move in a particular way. And what there was for us to do is to just follow what the body wanted. There was just this beautiful unwinding that happened and stuff, and people cried and people were like, this has been what.... I think as healers, we haven't created a container where we gather as healers. And make, whoever needs the healing, and then multiple women or men attending to this one person. And really, it's almost like we were listening as a community to what the body needed. Wow. And did them such time to where it was just fully witnessed and fully allowed. And it did what it did. And,
Sarah Marshall, ND: and that's where you get to trust the wisdom of the body itself. I mean, you could say that generally that all human bodies, all species, I mean,
if you kinda, I think about it, we're the only species that like needs doctors. Zebras, don't go to the zebra doctor. They have self healing mechanisms.
And I think that our view of the animal kingdom and the plant kingdom and the fungal kingdom is that they don't have any self-repair mechanisms. They either stay healthy or they die, but that's not true. There's major ways that animals will seek out medicinal plants they'll seek out eating particular things. They will seek out certain foods at certain times in order to actually self-correct. And we now have tons of research about that and that innate sense is in us. And I actually see it in young kids. So when... I don't do a lot of pediatric work, for whatever reason, it hasn't shown up for me, but occasionally, and I will have young kiddos in my practice and mostly under the age of four, four, and under is when I noticed this is the strongest and you'll start giving them remedies that really work for them. And they like demand them from their parents. It's like, you didn't give me my chewy or my gummy or whatever. Like they crave them, they want them, they know and they'll do the same thing with food.
If the food is of high enough, Quality like kids can even end up nowadays in trapped in their own candied imbalances by the age of two, you can have, you know, auto-immune stuff going on at really young ages. You can have all kinds of issues with the microbiome of young babies that throws off their innate ability to do this.
But generally speaking. Up until about the age of four and something kicks in where at four, we want to now have status. We also realized that the way we eat can control our parents and it becomes a power play that has nothing to do with what our body needs. So there's like all things start to come in, but
Jeannie Sajonas: that's like,
Sarah Marshall, ND: yeah, well, yeah, exactly.
But for, for us as adults, it's in there. Yes, you can actually get that way and you can tune in and, you know, one of my good friends who also is a naturopathic physician, but she's, she's a cook and she's an amazing cook. She would talk about how she'd walk around the grocery store and she would buy the things that spoke to her.
Jeannie Sajonas: Yes. And like,
Sarah Marshall, ND: like drew her in. Right. And, and I do that with everything where I'll bring something kind of close to my body and I can feel a magnetism towards it or repulsion. And, and I can like actually sense that like, Hmm, Nope. And it might be something totally good for me, but today not the thing.
And the go ahead,
Jeannie Sajonas: but isn't that interesting? Yeah. Our bodies actually have opinions.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Totally.
So I've done some meditations on this and. There's there's a bunch of different practices I've been introduced to. And one is just like journaling and asking the questions. There's a specific book. Actually, my mom introduced me to called "The Power of Focusing" that was created by, I think social workers or therapists, somebody in that realm. And, we'll make sure there's references in the show notes and everything, but in "The Power of Focusing", it's this whole dialogue and a guided process of questions, you can take the body through. That makes a difference in the unwinding and getting the answers.
But I did a meditation one time in a women's circle and the person leading it, wanted us to go in and examine our womb space as if it was a bowl. And to just get a visual of what is your bowl look like? Is it supple? Is it hard and cracked? Are there holes in it? Is it whole and complete? You know, and I actually originally had this vision of this, like unglazed clay pot and it had these cracks running through it and it was very dry and it was very hard and it was not.
It was like neglected. I got to kind of let the energy of that happen. And then she had us talk to our ovaries, but I'm like in the middle of naturopathic school, learning about how important like paleo diet is and to never eat gluten and sugar is bad for you. Like all these dietary things. Right. And I kid you not my left ovary said that what it wanted to heal was to wear high heels. And at that point, I was like, I never wore makeup. I didn't own dresses. I had come from the raft guiding and ski industry. So I was still pretty like
Jeannie Sajonas: mountain girl.
Sarah Marshall, ND: I had, I had not worked out my femininity, which was part of what I was getting communicated in this meditation.
And then my,
so that was my left ovary. My right ovary wanted ice cream and cause I, my, my listeners all know this now. Cause I talk about it all the time. But look, my thing is ice cream, like. I could eat perfectly clean and you could take every other sweet thing or whatever, and I would be, but if I'm like, if I can live my life in such a way that I can have ice cream, I'm doing it.
Yeah.
So
Jeannie Sajonas: that's all of the rules about all the foods where like, it should be perfectly gluten free, sugar free, very free. Right. I think part of the healing is we need to put a pause, like all of these things, but I think once your gut is healthy, He should be able to eat all of it. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And I can now, like, I mean, when I first changed my diet in 2005, you know, I'd been raised as a vegetarian and really by college, I was a Carbentarian.
I mean, I used to joke that the cookbook I was going to write was 1,001 ways to eat bread and cheese, because like, that was my life. And ironically, I did write a cookbook and it's gluten and dairy free, which I just think that's hilarious. but. I couldn't. If I had any gluten at all, once I cleared it out of my diet, I would get sores on the inside of my mouth.
I get heartburn instantly. My brain would shut off. Like, I didn't even know it was bothering me until I took it out. And then when I would test it, I'd have like one chocolate chip cookie and my whole body would freak out in the beginning.
But over time and the more I did other work and I worked on other parts of my health and I got my endocrine system, my adrenals, my thyroid were better.
My, you know, my gut got better. Like I do still take my clients through that process, but personally, I'm an omnivore now. I can eat anything.
Jeannie Sajonas: Yes.
Sarah Marshall, ND: I actually have been known to say like, I'm kind of, I don't, I'm not really a universe. I'm not creating this, but I sometimes actually have the thought that I wish I had more of a reaction to these foods that I know aren't that good for me because it's like, it would be easier to follow and I'm like, you know, I don't have any immediate symptoms now I have the same thing.
I can overdo it. I can go too far. And, you know, my body will let me know in various ways
Jeannie Sajonas: I think that's enough. That's, that's what I'm pointing to. It's I think if we give the body what it needs, it could go back to, like, I think our bodies are always looking for balance, right? Yeah. And, and we get so imbalanced over it, like where it's just, everything is taxed.
And so everything now becomes an irritant, but I think that when you get it back to balance and they think this really speaks to what you do, you bring people back to balance and now they could go back to all the things, right.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And more freedom. And I actually want to highlight that because I think there's a lot of people out there. They do a lot of good healing work and they clean up their diets and they start working out a lot. And then they get to this point where it's like, that becomes its own pathology,
that they
only eat certain foods they're...they know. And if they, and they do notice, like they still are symptomatic. And I, if I have, particularly who's shown up more in my world is when I have people that are, personal trainers or work in the fitness industry.
And they train sometimes twice a day. And, it's, you know, they'll do anywhere between like six to eight workouts a week would be a light amount. It's usually like more like 12 to 14 workouts in a week. And their diets are like, everything's measured down to like the minuscule little macro calorie. And they're often have a lot of processed foods still in the form of like protein shakes and branch chain amino acids, and powders and all these things that they've got it all like and that's a certain level of health, but for me, I love the word balance. I am also a, I'm a freedom junkie. My whole life is about freedom. So I really equate there's a, there's a homeostasis and a balance inside the body, but then your experience of life should be about freedom, the freedom to not exercise, the freedom to eat a freaking cheeseburger and French fries, the freedom to like go and have all the cheese in France when you're traveling in Europe, which is what I did.
Jeannie Sajonas: I mean, it's like, if you look like I see you're seeing that it kind of felt so heavy. Okay. I have to workout 14 times a week, or otherwise it's not healthy, but is it really, is that really what your body wants, or. Or like how stressful is that, that you have to measure and weigh and it's so ridiculous. Now when you go to restaurants and people like waiters now are trained to, do you have any allergies and stuff and like, okay, no, no gluten, no dairy, no this, no that like, you know, like
And, and it is,
Sarah Marshall, ND: I do think, you know, there's, it's a process. There is a point where that can make a really big difference. Like I say, it's like stop throwing the paper on the fire, that you can calm it down, but then there's a restructuring where eventually that comes back. And I think that's like the next level of the conversation, you know, that I'm seeing in some of my heroes from the paleo world, like Dave Asprey and, Robb Wolf, who was like the father of one of the main people in the original Paleo movement.
Robb Wolf came out with a book, I think two years ago. That was sort of like recovering after paleo and recognizing that like, you can bring these foods back in.
Jeannie Sajonas: I bet you that's going to be the next. Slapped so to speak. It's like all these people are eating so clean. Now we're going to go back to baked goods.
And the thing about it to me is this, like, there is wholeness and goodness in bread.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yes. Notice what we're all doing during the shutdown is baking bread, you know,
Jeannie Sajonas: like look at your, what your natural tendency is in times of stress. You want to go back to what's familiar.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And also I think biochemically I see a lot of people in times of stress, they do go to comfort foods and there's something valid about that.
Like, it does not need to be shamed, if, if anything, it can be honored as something temporary that comes in at a time when we need it.
Jeannie Sajonas: So Ash and I, you know, the first week, we just did a lot of carbs, right? Whether it's bread or pasta and stuff. And there, there was also just a natural, okay we've had enough of that. And yesterday he had a green juice and I had a green juice and the one day we just didn't eat all day because we didn't, we didn't need to. And, but that's what I mean about, are you really, even in touch to what your body is wanting and stuff? Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, exactly. I think I had a grilled cheese sandwich and tomato soup, like five out of seven days, the first two to three weeks of everything happening with the pandemic.
And that's another: ice cream and grilled cheese sandwiches. Those are like the two things, you know, they're different. They have different purposes in my life, but yeah.
Jeannie Sajonas: I don't know. Like shame doesn't serve any purpose for me. It's like, what's the whole point of it? Shame and guilt. And then you get into a bad spiral.
I just say if you're, if you are going to have the ice cream really fucking enjoy that
Sarah Marshall, ND: have it, have the best
Jeannie Sajonas: no, because that's energetically. It's just kinda like, Oh, this is so good. And like, and then you're done.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Totally,
Jeannie Sajonas: I only eat real butter. French butter, preferably.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yep.
Jeannie Sajonas: And I put that on and I like savor a really little bit of it.
And the thing about it that's interesting is when you are, I think, I think sometimes we overeat because it's almost like our body's not really fully satisfied because all are not full fat or like not sweet enough and stuff. And what I find is if I give it really like, if I really eat the good chocolate or if I really eat the good butter, I only need a little bit of it, then I'm done.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, and our body actually has natural relationships to full fat. That's a whole, we could do a whole podcast on that.
I actually eat a lot of butter. I very, I actually stopped using vegetable oils altogether. I used to have a little bit in my diet still. And like, I would still use a lot of olive oil.
I don't even do that anymore. And so I predominantly, I have some, I'll use it in salads and occasionally, but the majority of the fat in my diet comes from animal sources. I read this, this podcast is loaded with books and ideas, but, I read a book called the big fat surprise and it's like this journalistic reporting of how we ended up with the lipid hypothesis and what politically was really going on in that process.
And,
Jeannie Sajonas: and,
Sarah Marshall, ND: and the, how they shut down the people that said heart disease was caused by carbohydrates and sugar and triglyceride issues where the inflammation was coming from. And it got completely shifted over to no, no, no, no, that's not it. But in the 1920s and 1930s, we actually knew the origins of cardiovascular issues were far more oriented to carbohydrates and sugar issues than to fat.
But in that book, she, she made a comment that. In 1900, over 90% of the fat in American's diet, all came from animal sources, vegetable oils were, they're a modern food, that's not an inherent part of our diet. And if you go looking all over the world, you'll see that same thing. And there's a little bit of olive oil in Italy, in the Mediterranean, but like not extensively.
And then a little bit of coconut oil and Palm oils have been around, but, And so after I got that realization that then in 1980, 80% of all of our fats in our diet were coming from vegetable oils, predominantly corn and canola and safflower oil. And like, there's some people and I, you know, this will be, you heard it here first, but I've actually said that a lot of the fat that plaques in our arteries is just the undigestible vegetable oils that we're not able to process properly and they get rancid really easily.
And that's where the free radicals come from and all of that, we could get into a whole thing, but, and I don't that there's more research to do on that, but it makes sense to me. And so I've actually gone back to, I save all the lard when I make bacon and I keep a little container in my fridge of all the bacon fat, and I use butter almost exclusively.
Jeannie Sajonas: Oh, my God. I love you.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And it's like, but it's that same thing where I, I can eat it and feel really satiated and I don't have high calories and I've maintained my weight. And when my weight changes is when I go carb crazy, like every time, you know, otherwise it's really solid.
Jeannie Sajonas: Yeah, I know. But it's again.
And I also think that there's so much. So so much fat satisfaction when you are eating something fully fatty, also the flavor, right? Yeah. Yeah. This is the amount of bacon. Oh my dad, the other... So I kind of wake up and kind of have imaginations of what I'm going to have for today. Right. And so, and so I look at what I have, so I eat rice and, and I said to Ash, I think today we're going to have some pork belly pan fried and some fried rice and with bone marrow fat.
So I roasted the bone marrow and that was
Sarah Marshall, ND: I'm coming over. I'm coming over. We're doing it.
Jeannie Sajonas: We only eat, we only eat. Like twice a day. And that's what I did. I re I roasted the bone narrow 400 degrees for 15 to 20 minutes. Right. And, and it's basically like, butter. And you scoop that in your fried rice.
Sarah Marshall, ND: That's what it tastes like! I'd never had bone marrow until I dunno, six or seven years ago. I had it for the first time and my vegetarian upbringing sometimes comes in and I'm like, what? Why would I eat this? And then I had roasted bone marrow and it was like on these toast points. This is amazing. Oh my gosh. Yup.
Well, you know, I know we're coming up here on time and, I want to make sure that we kind of dive in. Cause you're one of the people I thought of about being really, to express some of the deeper aspects of healing and the places that aren't talked about as often.
So if you look, what would you say are some of the conversations you're present to about what it takes to heal that most people aren't talking about?
Jeannie Sajonas: The interesting thing about healing is first of all, people are willing to talk about their physical pain, right? That's the kind of like the first level of where people come to me is because of the physical pain.
But oftentimes what we don't talk about is either the emotional pain or, Just experiences in general. That's not, that's been left in our physical body and it's been left unhealed. And so how I work is I do primarily I work on the fascia and I just work, work, work and I'm so highly effective and not, that's not coming from a point of, of bragging or arrogance, but I just know what my work does. Right? And I feel it in my hands as I'm working with somebody. Right. And so typically what I say is, huh, I've been on this area. I've been doing a lot of physical movement on it. It's not responding. And at that level, like, I'll give you a good example because this is so good. I was on her hip and it was just like, hip kind of butt area she's on her side and nothing was moving and I'm doing a lot.
And then I'm coming into a half hour of the session and not being, it just feels all rigid still. Right? And she was still in pain. And I said to her, okay, I've done a lot of physical movement here. It's not responding. So then I go into the energetic level of it, right. This areas corresponds to this . So hip corresponds to family roots. and then she started to say what she said, which is, I have a lot of resentment because when my parents, both my parents were diagnosed with cancer. I know I both, I had to be their caretaker. And then shortly after they passed away and they kind of like were both sick and they kind of passed away within a year of each other. So a lot of, a lot of work and a lot of emotional trauma almost . And then she said, and then my brother got diagnosed with cancer and his wife left him and I ended up also being the caretaker and she did all of the caretaking, but there was still a lot of underlying resentment regardless.
And a lot of fatigue and in a way, a place where she wasn't acknowledging . And as she spoke, it literally was if you've ever been baking and you open up your oven, big waft of hot air coming out. That's how it felt like for me. And, and I said to her, she's like, what, what is it? I said, you just flashed me.
It felt like I just opened an oven. Right? Yeah. And, and then all of a sudden, everything was just supple. It just want it to be expressed, like all of this things that I did that I never got acknowledged for. And I'm so tired of it. And she got up and she looked like two inches taller and she says, this is the best I've felt in probably 10 years.
So like, so, so that portion of like the uncommunicated emotional pain or trauma, or like that's not, that's not being addressed. So oftentimes, so oftentimes I think it's hard. It's medicine. And again, it's so segmental, right? That we don't treat it. We don't treat people as whole beings. Yeah. I have an emotional problem, I will go to a psychologist. I have a physical problem, I'll go to a physical therapist, chiropractor. But so what I wanted to bring, so what I bring to my practices, I know the physical part is also very important to me. It's an easy access point. But my, my, my intention always is to treat the person as a whole person to just say, huh?
I always just say, huh, that's fascinating. And sometimes I would just say, keep talking, cause your body likes this conversation. Cause there for me, I get a sense. There's just. The tissue quality changes when the body likes the conversation that's being talked about. And so my practice really it's, I talk to people all day and touch people all day and it's like, I have the best job in the world.
It's not even really a job. Right? Yeah. And it literally, I love my job so much. I don't ever forget. How my practice grows is I don't ever forget to ask for the next appointment. When are you coming back, right? Or I just like, you know, if you want to see me for 10 sessions, let's just handle that now. So you're in my calendar cause once you fall out of my calendar, it might be hard to come back, no seriously! And so, people do that. But sometimes I forget to ask for payments.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Because you're like, so in that zone,
Jeannie Sajonas: I just feel like I've already gotten paid. Like I was able to facilitate your healing and what a privilege and honor that is. And then to get paid to me as something that's extra. And so that's my work.
And so I think oftentimes the emotional component of what we've been through as human beings gets stepped over, right. Or sometimes. The unresponsive involved. We all have some, some certain pains that we were not willing to talk about. And I think to be a healer really is I don't do any of the healing because the body again, is that person on the table already knows how to heal in what I provide for about more than anything else.
It's the space that it's safe. Like our body, our parasympathetic system can't go into full mode when it's not feeling safe. Yeah. And oftentimes. There's just enough to even you say, do you feel safe? I think could be healing for some people or for some people. When I say I fully, I think as somebody who's experienced the chronic pain, when I say to people, I know exactly what you mean, and people probably have said to you that you're sleezy, or are you faking this?
Cause pain is invisible. Right. And for the most part, I still look pretty good. Even when. I was 40 pounds overweight, I still look pretty good. And, and people cry. And to have that emotional release of this person sees me and, and, and provides a safe space with no judgment. When people come to me, there's just this sense of an oasis of, and so ultimately, my, my, my clients become my deep friends.
Cause it's like they share so much intimate knowledge and right. And they know that it's safe, that I don't blab it out.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And there's that exchange that happens too. Cause I have the same thing where, like I say, you know what I, one of the things I discovered is that my, like innate spiritual being is I'm the village healer, like in my head, if I could have it exactly, I would literally have a house in a small village and whenever anybody needed anything, they would just come sit on my front porch and they'd like, pay me in cheese and chickens or whatever. Cause I don't like, like I'm like, that would be like my dream literally, you know? And I'm kind of creating that as best I can on the internet now all over the world, but you know, it's, it's perfect.
When I have that opportunity to work with somebody, they become very close to me and I share a lot of my own journey with them through the process. Like they eventually get to know me as well, but there's, there's something else that goes, under, it's not just the language. It's not just the stories we share with each other.
There's an energetic exchange that happens that binds us. Like we've been through something together.
Jeannie Sajonas: Yes. We're kindred spirits and on the same journey.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. And then the greatest joy is when they send me, you know, their family members and I get to like expand out and then I'm working with their husbands or kids or partners.
And it's like, I get the whole thing.
Jeannie Sajonas: I take out, I take care of the whole family and the dynamic and all of it and stuff. And what a privilege that is. It's so true. There's some and, and well, one of the, so I do teach my method now, it's called Sajonas method. The, one of the things I teach in my course, it's a nine or 10 module course. And when it, like, what you said is the stories we share with each other. And so it's like, I don't follow a traditional practice where the person is separated from me. It's really not like for me, I say to people I fully understand your journey cause I've been there and I'm just a little bit ahead of you and I've now become the guide.
Cause I've, I could just, I could promise you that there is another side of this. It wouldn't be when, when people come to you so tired and so exhausted and so much in pain, I was to the point where I just thought that was just my life. Yeah. Right. Like no one could help me. Cause I've, I've, it's not like I didn't take care of myself.
It's not like I wasn't going to doctors and stuff. I've had multiple diagnosis. I had fibromyalgia. Chronic fatigue, adrenal fatigue, all of it and severe depression. And like, so I kept going and kept being given medication and the thing about it that's great. I knew, yes. You're describing it for me, but diocese, not it, that's not the underlying, you know, I was curious enough that I kept going and finding a way, I find a doctor that treated it correctly.
Right? But like one of the things that I teach in my mastermind is. Your story actually defines who you should be serving. Yeah. Ash is a singer. And so one time I worked on his ribcage and then he says, Oh, I just thought that I don't have the upper register anymore. And after I saw you, I was just hitting it and my voice was effortless and I had the best gig.
And he would say to me, if you just market, because I don't market, right?
And so he would say to me, if you just tell singers that you would free up their ribcage and they'd be able to sing, they're old, like right. Yeah. That you, your practice would never be without clients. And so I said to him, first of all, my practice is already full.
And, and, and, and it's that kinda like the unexpected result, right? Like I wasn't working on his ribcage so he could sing better. I was just working on...
Sarah Marshall, ND: 'Cause that's what was there. Right.
Jeannie Sajonas: That's what hurt. Right? And, and what I said to him is, unfortunately, I love that. I loved it. I made that unexpected. I gave you that unexpected, unprecedented result that we both are not expecting.
Right. And who I meant to serve are people who've had the chronic pain journey who couldn't find somebody that could give them relief, had no energy and stuff like that. So that's what I teach in my course is that your journey would. You would be pulled towards people that you want to help this. You've been there and you understand them and you are them at one point.
And so that's like a lot of people find comfort in knowing, but I have not always been this healthy, vibrant, right. Like I was at one point my hair was falling out. I was so tired. I couldn't even get out of bed. I was 40 or 50 pounds overweight. Right. To know that that I've been there is such comfort.
Right. And what did you say, if you could give those people relief? Like you would, I never worry about marketing because I don't have to, and I don't want to. I'm one person. Right. And so are you saying people like all of your pain and suffering you like you've earned that! Yeah. You've earned that, but that's
Sarah Marshall, ND: I heard that your greatest pain will be your greatest gift.
Jeannie Sajonas: And your biggest teacher, you know, it was the biggest teacher. And the thing about it, even as I was going through my journey, I always like it used, I used to cry on the table as people were just doing bodywork on me and what I was, and my thought was, I think I meant to have this. So that way I could, you know, I could show another way.
So it doesn't have to be this way forever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Well, thank you for walking the path so that you could help guide others. And I, this is not an ego stroke. I'm really particular about the body workers I work with and you are on a very short list of people that I would buy an airplane to be able to, you know, take it, to go see you to be able to have sessions.
Like if I, I mean, I can only imagine what we could get done if I actually was like in your city and you could work on me on a regular basis. Cause you're on a short list of people.
Jeannie Sajonas: Thank you actually, it's so fascinating because I feel like even this pause, this gift of coronavirus pause is actually even changing the way I practice.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah.
Jeannie Sajonas: Because Ash and I are talking about maybe having like people, someone like you, who doesn't live in my city. You could come stay in my house and then I could work on you for either or like an intensive, right?
Sarah Marshall, ND: I would absolutely do that. I mean, you don't, you've only ever laid your hands on me therapeutically.
Jeannie Sajonas: One time
Sarah Marshall, ND: I can think of two. One of them was one of them was at the beach.
Most profound, you know, and, and we were sitting next to a pool at a, at an all inclusive and
I was dealing with things around relationships and I had just recently ended a really, passionate relationships that I thought was going to be the one forever. And it wasn't. And I was in this really rough spot with relationships and you just were compelled and you, oh my gosh, it was in my abdomen. And it was like, and it wasn't even painful at all. That's the other thing, like, I've had lots of deep tissue massage and I kinda like when people like ring me out like a sponge, like, you know, I'm one of those, like pummle me into submission kind of people, but, Your practice is so not like that.
And I would have these moments sort of like, like you barely touched me. It seemed like, and you didn't even move around a lot. It was like, you're just like this one spot and you just went for it and you just this one. It was, and I remember it was in my left hip, just inside of the soft part of my stomach, right above my left hip and something in there.
And tears came pouring out of my eyes and like, and I wish right now I could remember exactly what you said, but I remember you said one sentence and it was like
Jeannie Sajonas: I don't remember
Sarah Marshall, ND: a communication that came to me
Jeannie Sajonas: I channel, I channel that. It's channeled work. It really truly is. It's not, it's not coming from my mind. Yeah. And I told that to people sometimes, and sometimes there are messages that's just for you. And sometimes there's not, but it's either, it's mostly, it resonates for people. And then I don't remember actually,
most of the time I
Sarah Marshall, ND: It just, it came through you totally. So I can only imagine what we would get done in like a weekend.
Jeannie Sajonas: No, it's, like I said, it's, it's changing my practice.
I even said to Ash, I don't even know that I want to keep getting new clients. I just even would keep the clients that I have. But tell them we're going to do two hour sessions and this is what's going to be, and you know, you're in charge and, and things are coming up where I'm called to do a healing center where you can
Sarah Marshall, ND: Please keep teaching. Please keep teaching.
Jeannie Sajonas: So four people would be on you and we're just there only for you, right? Yeah. so I don't know. I don't know. I don't know in what form it's going to be. but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's this idea of you pay me and I work on you for an hour is falling away.
And maybe it's really to like really unapologetically say, no, we're doing healing work and you're going to be doing the healing. And I'm the facilitator and this is a safe space. So you can do your work; this is your work.
Yeah.
So things are happening.
Sarah Marshall, ND: That's awesome.
Jeannie Sajonas: Things are happening, and I am clear what there is for me to do is just to be quiet and allow what wants to arise to come up.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Awesome. Yeah. Well, there's so many more things I want to talk to you about, so we're definitely gonna have to have you come back.
Cause I think there's, there's a whole, I know there's a whole conversation. That's just right there for me that I'm like, okay, I got to write this down to create is where healers can talk and practitioners, you can talk about what it is to take care of each other.
Jeannie Sajonas: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And doing our own work and taking care of each other and that whole, like how do you not end up... I've heard people say, like, I feel like I take all my, my client's energy with me, and then I have to, you know, they, where they're taking on other people's stuff like that. We can't talk about it now, or we'll have a whole nother hour this podcast, but you would be an amazing person to discuss that with.
Jeannie Sajonas: Cause I don't, I don't, I don't do that. I don't, I just, I, yeah,
Sarah Marshall, ND: but I think that's something that really make a difference to share. So we'll have to.
Jeannie Sajonas: But I think, I think, I think what I think we need kind of like a healer's collective kind of like having, but even sometimes just even admitting out loud.
Yes, I am a healer, but so are you,
Sarah Marshall, ND: yeah. Right.
Jeannie Sajonas: It's like to not be apologetic about it. Yeah. It took me a long time to even say the word healer, because (inaudible) it took me a long time to say that. And now I, and people, and I don't even say it. People say it to me, you are a healer. And I said, I am, and I'm here to help you heal.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. Awesome
Jeannie Sajonas: unapologetically.
Sarah Marshall, ND: I love it. Well, thank you so much, Jeannie. This has been incredible and I can't wait to have you come back and we'll just dive in.
Jeannie Sajonas: I just love you and what I would love is to, for us healers to go on a retreat.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yes, please.
All right. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeannie Sajonas: Sacred places. And, you know, just having a circle of, of, of open conversation and healing and touching and being with each other, you know.
Sarah Marshall, ND: That sounds amazing. Let's create it.
Jeannie Sajonas: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Ok good. I love you too. Thank you so much.
Jeannie Sajonas: So good to see your face. Thank you for inviting me.
Sarah Marshall, ND: You bet. This has been awesome. All right, until next time
Jeannie Sajonas: until next time. Bye.
Bye.
(Music)
Sarah Marshall, ND: Thanks to today's guest Jeannie Sajonas for her divine wisdom and grace, you can learn more about finding your own healing by going to SarahMarshallND.com or following me on Instagram at @SarahMarshallND. Special thanks to our music composer, Roddy Nikpour and editor Kendra Vicken. And thank YOU for being here. Until next time.