Morgan Garon on Healing Money
On today's episode, coach Morgan Garon and I take a turn into a subject we love to resist: money. She and I find the amazing parallels between physical and financial wellness and how it all comes down to our sense of personal value and willingness to love ourselves.
Referenced in the Show
Morgan’s Bio
Morgan Garon is a Financial Recovery Counselor & Wealth Empowerment Coach committed to helping people find success, fun and peace with their money. With an extensive background in Wealth Management and Relationship Development, she offers a personalized approach to solving a variety of money problems. She works closely with her clients to identify and eliminate habits and beliefs that hold them back and keep them from living their dreams. Morgan truly enjoys helping people create financial health and happiness, while providing a supportive space to learn and grow. She is proud to offer a unique, life-changing experience that provides a ton of relief, excitement, and hope. After working with Morgan, you’ll never look at your money the same.
To learn more or to connect with Morgan directly, please visit her website: www.MorganGaron.com
And for all the women out there, please be sure to join her private Facebook group – Money Makers & Sexy Savers: A Vibrant Community for Women and Money
Full Transcript
Sarah Marshall ND: Welcome to HEAL. On today's episode, coach Morgan Garon and I take a turn into a subject we love to resist: money. She and I find the amazing parallels between physical and financial wellness and how it all comes down to our sense of personal value and willingness to love ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Sarah Marshall.
I want to get into why I thought of you in particular and why I think your voice is so critical and important on this because part of what I'm seeing in my clients and in myself, in life about healing, even if somebody has a physical illness, like one of the things I been dealing with since the diagnosis first even came on the radar, which was like about six weeks ago, the first time anybody, one of my doctors said. I think you've got a resurgence of Epstein-Barr virus, which causes chronic fatigue syndrome.
And I was like, what?
Morgan Garon: Right. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: The very first thing that showed up, it was fear for my financial security. Yeah. It was right there. And then like, and I'm successful. I mean, I have a boyfriend now, but like I'm single basically in terms of like what my life needs to pay for. I don't have children and I have had to confront the extent to which I always assumed, like, not even consciously, it was just that I'd always be able to work and make money.
It never dawned on me ever in my forty, not at 40,
Morgan Garon: right.
Sarah Marshall ND: That there would come a time where like, in a matter of weeks I could like maybe not work. Hmm. And then I'm looking at my bills and I'm looking at my lifestyle and I'm looking the way I have it all set up, I do not have it organized for that possibility. And it's like, kind of rocked me and I know there's lots. I want to get into what you see about all this, but like money, finance, our, our valuing of ourself. I have a hypothesis and I want to hear from you and see if we ended up in the same place that it's all inextricably linked to wellbeing, happiness, self-worth like that all of it's connected. So tell us a bit about like what you do in the world and who you are for people.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think you basically just hit the nail on the head right off the bat is all of these roots and underlying, underpinned beliefs and fears and thoughts about money. And like you said, you're, you're set up pretty well. You felt like you were set up pretty well. And then, you know, boom, there it is. It's that? It's that sudden confrontation of Whoa, what am I going to do? And so what I do with people in the world is I work on empowering the relationship to money and transforming the thoughts, patterns, habits, beliefs, fears, and really just helping people organize stuff. So there's definitely this organizational, numerical, logical side of the process where it's like, okay, we got to get things sorted, but then in that process, then deal with all of the emotion that comes up with it. So it's kind of this two-pronged process that I take people through so that we can unearth all of that stuff that's lurking down below. and I never know exactly what I'm going to run into with somebody, but there's always certain flavors that repeat no matter what.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: And it is often like, well, I want to feel more. I'm confident. I want to be more aware. I want to, I want to have abundance. I want to know I'll be okay if something happens. Obviously I also deal with a lot of the debt repayment and savings plans. Like I said, you know, kind of that side of things, but it's more of that emotional aspect where people are really looking to feel good about their money. And that's kind of, my slogan is feel good about your money. Just like get to that point where you're like, okay, I feel good. and that can look different for most people. But again, like I said, there's kind of these flavors that weave in and out of most circumstances where it is okay knowing that you can deal with a major bumps in the road. What's that gonna look like? And I think with COVID, obviously people are seeing. Oh, wow. I really do need this safety net that we always hear about. You know, you always hear people say three to six months worth of living expenses. (Sarah: right?!) And I know, I know the thought process that a lot of people have when they hear that is like, yeah right. You know, or come on, is that really necessary? And I've even seen article after article of how, Oh, you shouldn't do that because your money's just sitting there not
Sarah Marshall ND: doing nothing, not earning anything. I've seen that.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. And I'm like, no, no wrong answer.
Sarah Marshall ND: It's so interesting. Like you can literally now reverse engineer what my view of money had to have been because I, and I, you know, we can get into, so I'm happy to share about some of my.
Morgan Garon: Yeah
Sarah Marshall ND: triumphs and tribulations.
Morgan Garon: Yeah me too.
Sarah Marshall ND: Like one of them though, was I bill $38,000 of credit card debt. Plus I had, when I first launched my practice, we were in a physical building and we did that. It was me and a business partner. We did that for two years. We invested $65,000 between the two of us straight out of med school in that practice, and then just closed our doors.
And for whatever reason, nobody around us nor us, even really dawned on us. We could have sold the practice to me a two-year-old practice was such a baby brand new thing. I didn't think there was anything to sell. Ha! I was wrong. Total missed that opportunity, but we just closed our doors and took the debt with us.
And so there was a point where I actually hired somebody who does that consolidation. And I started to deal with some of my stuff about it and I paid all that off. So I paid off over time, $75,000 worth of business and personal debt. I totally have taken on like a really empowered savings plan for my taxes as a sole business owner.
Like I have it ahead of time, gotten an integrity with the IRS over the last three years I've been taking on a new relationship to my student loans. I've been handling all that right?
Morgan Garon: Excellent.
Sarah Marshall ND: Never saved a damn thing for an emergency fund. Like it didn't occur to me like I'd need one.
Morgan Garon: Yeah, yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: Until now.
Morgan Garon: And isn't that the crux of it all, right? It's like, you don't think you need it until you do. I mean, that's same thing with like paying for insurance, right? Like nobody really likes to pay for insurance. B-- I don't anyway,
Sarah Marshall ND: I don't, no.
Morgan Garon: I'm assuming most people don't
Sarah Marshall ND: I still have grumbles from time to time. Like why have I given them thousands of dollars over the last? But here we are, right?
Morgan Garon: Yeah. And, you know, thank goodness that you have, right. Because it's not worth it until you need it. And then when you need it, it's the most valuable thing you could ever hope for (Sarah: yeah) that you could have ever set yourself up with. And that's the idea of the safety net emergency fund. You might hear it called (Sarah: right) . Sometimes we call it a freedom fund, you know, where people... it's like, okay, something could happen. You could have an emergency, you could get sick, you could have an accident. You could get laid off because of a global pandemic. (Sarah: yeah) which I don't think anybody thought that was a possibility until this (Sarah: totally) year.
or you may even come to that point in life where it's time for a transition,
Sarah Marshall ND: whether it's burnout (Morgan: and that's where) or it's like, I mean, cause that's the other thing that's been, you know, don't worry nobody. I'm not closing my practice, but my, my thought has been like at 11 years in. Is this all I want to be doing?
What else might? And I've, I've often heard myself say something like, Oh God, I just kill for a sabbatical (Morgan: totally) to go get my head straight (Morgan: yep) through a bunch of research, potentially work on writing a book, you know, like that whole thing. And I know there's ways to get grants and book deals and stuff that can potentially fund those opportunities.
But what, how much joy and security I'm imagining, because I don't have it right now that I could have, if I knew that was an option. Absolutely.
Morgan Garon: Absolutely. It's it's giving yourself permission too, you know.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah. So I want to get into the, kind of the, the emotional bits. like you can just share from your story, like what, what have you had to confront, breakthrough, transform about your relationship to money.
Morgan Garon: Oh God. So...
Sarah Marshall ND: just that. Just that question (laughs)
Morgan Garon: Oh that? Okay well let me break it down for you. I mean, you know, if we kind of look back over the course of of my financial life. It's interesting. And I think most people's financial stories are, even when they might not think that they are, there's so much programming and learning and conditioning that happens around money and it branches off into all different areas for people.
So, you know, if we go all the way back to the beginning, thankfully I grew up in a household where money was talked about. I'm one of the few and I'm very fortunate. My parents. Taught me about money as best they could. You know, they had me earning money. I was working, I started working at a very young age.
They had a, we have a family business and I worked in the store and I had a time card and I understood what it meant to earn money. And then they worked with me to learn how to save it and you know, the idea of taxes. So I came from a very well discussed financial background.
Sarah Marshall ND: That's a pretty solid space to even start from like, and (Morgan: it is, it is) I had similar, similar kinds of circumstances and
Morgan Garon: I'm so fortunate and I know that and I've actually thanked my parents repeatedly for that. And then I drove my car into the credit card, financial wall anyway, and that's where, that's where I kind of say, okay, you know, cause a lot of people say, Oh, well I never learned about it. I never learned about it. And that's valid. It's a missing in our culture, in our society to talk about money. And that's why I try to bring it up and try to strip away the taboo nature and all of that.
Sarah Marshall ND: Dude isn't it funny, like some of our favorite things are money and sex and we won't talk about 'em,
Morgan Garon: won't talk about it. (Sarah: right? yeah) Don't talk about it. Can't talk about it. (Sarah: yeah) It's tasteless, it's all of, all of these negative things. And it's like, no, guys let's talk about it because when we do, everybody's like, Oh, I thought it was just me.
And they realize, Oh, I am.
Sarah Marshall ND: It's interesting too. Cause like, I mean, I know we, don't like to air dirty laundry to talk about what we're dealing with, but also it's considered uncouth to talk about when you have it. So then you can't learn from people, (Morgan: yep) you know, like. Sex as well. You're not allowed to be like, Hey, I'm having lots of great sex. You want to talk about how I did that? Right. Like that's taboo too! (Morgan: totally yeah!) And it's so interesting. So like both of those are like these areas, but, but yeah, that's fascinating. Okay. So you guys did talk about it, but you ran into the credit card wall anyways.
Morgan Garon: I did. Yeah. And I'll, I'll, I'll come right back to that, but I want to touch on what you just said, because what I've noticed is that it's. It is tasteless and tacky to talk about money when you have it. But it's totally acceptable to talk about it when you don't. This, not everybody will, a lot of people still try to hide that.
Sarah Marshall ND: It's a good point, though.
You can brag about it almost, or at least complain about it, or like it's, it's cool to say stuff. Yeah, well, I can't afford that or I'm broke.
Morgan Garon: Yeah.
Or whatever the case may be. You know, student loans or all of these credit cards. Again, not everybody will, a lot of people hide that away too, but there's a little bit more acceptance. It's like the commiseration in it. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: I find that like the complaint can be public, but like, what I noticed too was the, my truth, what my wounded self about my money.
That was a part I hid, but I didn't. People knew how much student loan debt I had cause of going to school. And people knew about like, I would not like publicly necessarily, but like to friends and family, like I'd complain about it all the time. And actually I might as well just say this here, the breakthrough I had that had me pay off the business debt was I actually saw this limited belief I had about myself and I saw that my debt was my favorite piece of evidence to prove to myself that I was F'ed up. Yes. It was like my favorite flogging stick when I was really down on myself or when people are like, yeah, but Sarah, you're such a great doctor and you're so capable. I'd be like, yeah, you don't know the truth. You don't really know. Let me tell you how much I fucked up this thing in the past. Let me tell you about the business. I totally ran into the ground. Which PS, I didn't run into the ground. We chose not to do it, but I would talk about it that way. And I would beat myself up with it,
Morgan Garon: yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: And it was like a greedy little nugget. It took something to let that thing go and actually be empowered enough to handle paying off the debt and like, I can share this Knight in shining armor kind of story.
Right? Oh. And then I had this epiphany and I, you know, it took me 18 months, but I paid up. Remember that? Yeah. But the reality is it was like quitting sugar.
Morgan Garon: Totally.
Sarah Marshall ND: It was like quitting drinking. It was like getting rid of this juicy nugget that I got a lot out of.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. Well, you identified as somebody who has debt, that's how you knew yourself. So to get out of debt and not have it, was actually uncomfortable, which sounds absurd, but that is what happens. You start to identify with, I have credit card debt. I can't save. I'm not good at money, whatever those stories are. And then it's like to actually get outside of that is hard to imagine. And you don't know what it looks like outside of that.
You don't know what somebody without credit cards without credit card bills does. So you don't, you don't even know what's over there. And so it's one of those things where, you know, until you're really willing to to take the leap and say, okay, I'm going to figure this out. And I'm going to do what needs to be done.
And I'm going to deal with, with what there is to deal with. You don't know what's there. And that was what I had to go through repeatedly. So I came from this background where, okay money was talked about. I worked in finance and wealth management.
Sarah Marshall ND: I love it. It's like the doctor getting chronic fatigue. Right? Yep
Morgan Garon: I worked in banking. I worked in... yeah. I got my, my first job. I, my. My first career, which I told you, I started working at a very young age.
I worked in hospitality, restaurants and hospitality, and I had incredible customer service. Well, that then translated later to a career in, in wealth management. I got hired for my customer service skills by a broker who said, I can teach you the rest, but what you can do with people, can't be taught.
So that's how I kind of transitioned and started working in banking, Bank of America investments. So it was banking and, and investment advisory. And I was still kind of doing a lot of the same silly stuff with my own money. And, you know, I would get into credit card debt. I would get out. I'd find a way to get it paid off. And then a short while later I'd wind up, back in it again. And that yo-yo happened many times for me. And it was frustrating and I was like, what is going on? I know better. What the hell am I doing?
Sarah Marshall ND: I would throw lump sums of money at my credit cards and pay them down, thinking I was getting somewhere.
And then there was always a and see in my realm, the justice. I didn't, I wasn't paying bills with it and I didn't buy clothes and it wasn't going to, it was all business oriented. It was all investing in my practice somehow. Coaching programs, personal growth, or like literal, like marketing, whatever I was doing with like emails, websites and stuff.
That's what was on the credit card. So like I had this justification for that. And at one point, right before I actually like, started to pay it off, when I had to work with somebody who had me like deal with reality, I added up how much I had paid off. How much, how many payments I'd made it. I'd made like.
Almost $45,000 in payments on $30,000 of credit cards. And yet I still had $32,000 in the balance. Cause it was this throw money at it, put something else on it, throw money at it puts, we put it out over four years. It never changed.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. And that's the cycle I work to break. That is the debt cycle that without a proper savings structure. So that's what I teach people is that the debt and savings are, are. Incredibly linked to each other. You basically, you can get out of debt, but it's almost impossible to stay out of debt, especially if you have that pattern. Without the savings block and that's the missing piece for a lot of people. So that's what I helped bring, bring to light.
And that's what I had to learn for myself, because I did have the background. I did have the knowledge, but I had the patterns. I had the self limiting beliefs myself, and I didn't have the proper structure. So once I learned the proper structure, And how to interrupt the cycle, I was able to get out and almost stay out.
However, of course I had to have one more final hurrah. So I learn all of it. I'm even teaching it to other people. And then enter toxic relationship.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: So I get into this relationship. That was very unhealthy. Of course. I didn't realize that until I was too far in, which is often the story. And I went through the ringer with it and I, my finances got severely impacted.
My emotional state was severely impacted and the final piece of my puzzle outside of all of the knowledge (Sarah: yeah) was, was realizing that I had to heal and recover from codependency.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: And I didn't, I didn't know that I didn't even know what could be dependency was, and it's such an abstract thing anyways, even now knowing more about it.
But I wasn't able to, to really cross over into financial empowerment until I dealt with that piece of myself, which was (Sarah: totally) the codependency and my willingness to try to fix things for other people. you know, I cared more in this particular relationship. I cared more about my partner's problems than he did, and I was trying to solve them for him.
And it, it cost me an arm and a leg. (Sarah: yeah) Unfortunately, and sadly, he then went on to steal from me. And you know, it, it was just, it was just. Bad after bad and the hole got deeper and deeper. So thankfully my own healing and recovery process, I was able to get myself out of that situation. And then, because I did have all of the knowledge, I was able to write the ship pretty easily at that point.
and then thankfully from that point forward, that's where I was like, okay, not only have I done the money work, I've also done my own personal work alongside it. And that's where I finally was able to say, okay, I'm good. (gong sound) Not to say there won't be other challenges and things to deal with in the future. But that's when it was like, all right, I'm on solid ground after all this time.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah. Did you hear that? Or was that like a, I swear, it sounded like a guitar just went off, but maybe not.
Morgan Garon: I didn't hear it.
Sarah Marshall ND: Okay. All right. We'll see if it's on the audio. Okay guys. We don't know what that was, but that's fine. It was very lovely. It was like a gong or a, or a, a, guitar string or something. (Morgan: I didn't hear..) Okay, great. Perfect. No problem.
It literally was like, as you're saying, like, and I did the personal growth work and I did the, my, it was like doi-ing I'm like the universe is confirming, you know? (laughing) it's awesome.
Morgan Garon: Hey well good, there you go. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: And that's where it's like, you don't know what's in there sometimes until you start rooting around in it. (Sarah: yeah) And that's what I help people do is kind of (Sarah: yeah) see, all right, what what's behind the curtain
Sarah Marshall ND: and that's, you know, I mean, I don't even actually think it's parallels. I literally think it's the same thing. I think the way we deal with our wellbeing. And probably a lot of other things, but I'm going to definitely connect, the way we deal with our health, our wellbeing, and finances are literally, it's exactly the same conversation, which is why I actually am like whichever one's more important to you, money or your health work on that. The other one will naturally get better. And we even use the same language investing in yourself, (Morgan: mhm) your own value, right? Like, and so I think what it takes to heal physically, and a lot of people who struggle with their finances, one of the biggest things is, is like, I don't have the money to take care of my body and my health. Right?
And there's this relationship that's created there and it is a little tricky, but I often find you got to actually work both at the same time, which can seem like a lot, but that, you know, there's. Yeah. And it, and I'm going to, I dunno, this just occurs to me to talk about is like, I think there's also a myth. And I'm willing, totally to get the flack of like, that's easy for you to say Sarah, you're a doctor and the income that I'm at, but I actually do think there's a myth that it's like about what if I made more money, these problems would get solved. Right? (Morgan: oh hands down) Cause what I saw was when I was a raft guide and a downhill ski race coach and I literally like my taxable income that year was $11,000, but I lived on the back of a raft for three months out of the summer and, and slept under the stars. I had no rent and all my food was paid for by the raft company. And then, and then I went to Costa Rica for three months because at that time time, it was cheaper to live in Costa Rica than the United States.
Now, it's kind of the same. But like I would go travel internationally and I could spend a thousand dollars a month to live down there. And so then did that. And then I'd spend six months in the ski season, right. Like, and I did that for a while. And it was like, there was something at that point, things were actually more clear and easier.
And I had more access to stuff than when I had gotten out of med school. And I now had student loan debt and then I already went into debt to build the practice. And it was like my mental outlook was this huge ceiling of stuff I'd invested in. And even though I had a greater earning potential, it took me a long time to work through my core stuff. (Morgan: mhm)
And like, there was one I uncovered that was, I made it up, but it was basically if I make over a hundred thousand dollars a year, my mother won't love me.
Morgan Garon: Oh, wow.
Sarah Marshall ND: Came from conversations. She... cause my mom is incredible. She talks about like, It's our civic duty that if we do reach a certain level of affluence, that we absolutely have to take care of other people. Like that, you know, that's just a huge, my mother has given by goodness and contribution to others, which is incredible, but I would hear things she'd say, and I'd interpret, like there was a glass ceiling that if I pass that financially, I would leave. Like, she wouldn't like me anymore. Now, I actually had the courage at one point when I uncovered this doing work with a coach to have that conversation with her. And we actually took the whole thing apart and she even admitted places where she had struggled with her relationship to money. And that my dad's success, he had a computer software company that did medical technology, was always hard for her in comparison to where her family members were. And it was difficult for her to have more than the people around her and her family and like the guilt she had about it.
And so we had this whole conversation about that side of it. So like, And we've seen it, but like just making more money. It's the, if the underlying fundamental, emotional story about ourselves or whatever that comes from isn't altered and we don't have the new knowledge, it's a, both, and the same patterns will just perpetuate themselves.
Morgan Garon: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and I think this is such a common occurrence for people and it's, it's an internal conflict because it's very, very common for people to basically think that they can out earn their problems. Oh, if I just make more money than how could this not be resolved? If I have more money, then it's going to be easier to pay the bills. Plain and simple, easy as that. Okay. Now I need to make more money. Well, first of all, that's not true, because you're going to experience lifestyle inflation and your know your, your things get more expensive as you make more money, unless you know how to work against that, that's almost inevitable. So first of all, it's just simply not true, but then what also happens is that now there's this internal conflict for some people where they may have, depending on their upbringing, depending on, you know, their experience in the world, they may have beliefs about what it means to have money or to make money or the type of people who have, or make money.
And this is where sometimes it's like, it's, it's a, it's an internal conflict and it can be really hard to, to, to cross that line. I know personally, I never really had the stories about, you know, people who have money and there's, and I have my clients fill in the blank there, rich people blank, poor people blank.
And there's a lot of these misconceptions,
Sarah Marshall ND: our judgments and our assumptions about that and our prejudices.
Morgan Garon: Absolutely.
My story was more and I, I still, I still work to transform it on a regular basis because if I'm not careful, it smacks me right in the face of, making money takes hard work, right. And the only way you're going to get, and I mean, look, look at the, my experience, right?
My parents had a family business. They worked really hard. It went well, but I started working at a very young age, so I am very conditioned to money equals work. And so there's, there's a, there's an uphill battle for me, where if something feels easy, I'm like,uh-oh, this, this is concerning. Yeah. If it's not hard work, then it's not valid.
Yeah. So that's a little bit of my experience. Yeah. Dad though, my fiance, who, you know, for my listeners who don't, or for your listeners who don't, his story was rich people are jerks. (Sarah: mhm yeah)
That experience of he moved here from England when he was a child and moved into a pretty affluent neighborhood where they weren't necessarily at the same level as he thought whether or not. (inaudible)
Sarah Marshall ND: He felt like. The childhood view. Right. Yeah.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. You know, and so he felt like, Oh, all of these rich Americans or whatever, you know, he, he started to, to associate, Oh, these kids aren't nice. And these kids are rich, whatever, you know, whatever their child's language around it are or would be. And so, yeah, he decided, well, I don't want to be like that.
So I don't want to be rich. And so he went on in his career to make great money, but he did everything in his power to get rid of it. Yeah. And we've worked on that. We've transformed that. And he's definitely in a place now where he doesn't make that association. And so I think a lot of people experience I need to earn more money and then they have a lot of stories and experience about making more money and there's a conflict. It doesn't match. It's not in alignment and it causes issues for people. So that's where a lot of those same patterns then continue to play out where maybe you're making a lot more money.
But you're accumulating the debt you're paying for all sorts of stuff. For other people, your, you know, your, you increase your own expenses to where it's like, okay, I'm making great money, but I'm still just barely keeping my head up above water. And that's where identifying those beliefs. Sometimes it's just as simple as that of, Oh my gosh, look what I'm doing.
And you can kind of, you know, change your path a little bit. And then other times it takes much deeper work, which is what my own experience was, where, you know, I had to really dig deep and overcome some of those codependent beliefs that I, yeah. So it's, it is, it's a common misconception that more money will fix it.
And then not only that, sometimes people are very conflicted about making more money. So it's finding the harmony and the balance inside of all of that is, is the solution. That's what I, you know, I just sort of help people do is find that sweet spot where they know that they can progress forward, powerfully and release a lot of these old stories and misconceptions so that they can actually go on to be successful in whatever areas that are important to them, whether that's financial or contribution, whatever that may be. (Sarah: right) Cause a lot of times people realize, Oh, I just wanted to make more money because I thought it was going to fix the problem. And then when they realized that's not the solution, then they're kind of released from that pressure to earn more.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: And they may say, "Oh... (inaduible)
Sarah Marshall ND: that's actually been something I've been kind of looking at like is like, well, you know, Why do I want.. And do I want to just make more money? Like really, you know, I mean, especially like the level that I have gotten to at this point in my career, my money works, you know, and while my brain would like to tell me that I can't possibly save for retirement based off of what I'm earning right now, that's actually not true.
Like in reality, it's I would have to rearrange some things, but it's all, it's all available to me at this point. Right. And so I've been looking at like that balance between. The amount of time, the amount of exertion, but then I'm also in your camp, which is because I definitely have the there's this physical reality to what it takes to make money, you know, the work, the time, the effort, you know, and, and my heart, this is really true to my soul.
And I don't, I think there's some stuff to uncover, but like, it matters to me that I deliver. A huge amount of value for what people pay me to do. I, I always want to overdeliver, you know, and I don't actually think that's an issue, but I also have to check myself in... like there was something I did get, and I don't, I wasn't looking to transform my relationship to finances, but I think that's what actually happened when I look at it. Cause there's a literally like I track that's one of the things I do I've learned is like track everything. Right? So I track everything. I track all my, you know, my monthly income and like I have the spreadsheet that actually has a overview of every month of income, my entire 11 years in business. And so I can literally see I and I, there was a literal point where my income got consistent. Being an entrepreneur, being in business for myself, having clients come to me, there was a lot of upsy-downsy. My, my annual total was okay, but there were like $200 months and $20,000 months and the $200 months were terrifying. Right? And it was like, thinking that was probably how it was going to go forever. Right? I didn't know there's going to be, you know, so there was a lot of emotion, but there was this like literally on the data, you can just see like, bink. My income done consistent. And I've looked at why? What did I do?
Morgan Garon: Yeah what happened right there. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: And it was right about that time. I literally heard myself. Say something to someone that was implying that I was still a new doctor, like I'm new at this.
And they looked at me and they gave me a funny look and they're like, well, how long have you been practicing? And I said, eight years. And they were like, Sarah, when are you not going to be new at this? Right. And I was like, I mean, like Deepak Chopra and like, and I saw, I compare myself to the biggest, most successful, unlike Dr. Oz, who I don't know. I mean, love you, Dr. Oz, thank you for who you are, but like that's not actually who I'm like striving to be, but there's some other people out there, Chris Kresser and Dr. Axe. And you know, that I, like, I think are phenomenal, Dr. Andrew Weil, who just transformed all of integrative medicine, you know, with one of the first MDs to really speak out about integrative medicine and nutrition.
You know, these are literally like, The top 10, most successful physicians that have had breakthrough careers in integrative medicine. And I'm like, well, I'm not like them. It (Morgan: yep) was like, that was my mark was so big. And all... I really did get how ridiculous it was that it was like, I can't keep saying, I can say I'm in my first 10 years, I can say whatever. But to imply that I was a brand new doctor with eight years of experience was ridiculous.
Yeah like you were just getting your feet wet.
Yeah. And I was using it yeah. As a buffer so that people wouldn't expect too much out of me. Well, I don't really, and it was, it was also not even expecting much out of me. It was also like a protection of don't take me too seriously.
In case I say something that pisses you off or in case I say something that's inflammatory or goes against... Cause, I mean, dude, I'm having this podcast and I haven't gotten really crazy yet, but I've, I'm like, there's some stuff to say about what doesn't work in medicine and where we're not healing people. And like, that's why I'm having a conversation about heal. So I actually saw that it was like a protection mechanism of like, Oh, I'm just a new doctor. I don't really know what I'm talking about. So maybe you won't get too pissed at me if I say something like, yeah. And that was right around that time, something shifted in my income
Morgan Garon: broke through it. Yep. And you started earning at the level of an experienced doctor.
Sarah Marshall ND: Totally. Yeah.
Morgan Garon: Well, I'm laughing because I it's the, it's the laughter of recognition because it's like still to this day. I mean, I've got, you know, 15 years in finance at this point, probably more at this point and I still.
I still catch myself downplaying at times. I've I have gotten much better and I've definitely had my own breakthroughs around it, but same sort of thing. I'm I was laughing when you were talking about all of these other top notch, famous doctors because I'll do the same thing with myself. Even with my mentor, Karen McCall, she's been doing this since the eighties.
She's literally been doing this for 35 years and going on 40 years and I'll compare myself to that. And it's absurd. It's absurd. (laughs) You know, I've been in, I've been in wealth management and personal finance for years at this point. And I've even had my own private practice for going on six years. And I will still sometimes look at people who are 20 years further into the process than I am and think that my stuff is not as valid as their stuff and I've worked around it, but that's why I laugh because I'm like, Oh yeah. Right. And that's that whole imposter syndrome.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah, oh yeah.
Morgan Garon: That is so common and so pervasive and it's, I think amongst women particularly, but I know that it's kind of across the board of where, you know, we think, well, who are we to say that sometimes now some people are, are don't experience that, but I find it very common.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: And it's interesting what that can do to your finances then. and it's, it's a way to continue to kind of keep yourself small, you know?
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah. And I think especially. I could see that playing out for people where. They even, if they bring the income in, they've got to get rid of it. Cause it's like the, I don't deserve this.
I shouldn't have this around, you know, or I don't need it. That was one of my like, altruistic, like, well, I don't need it. Someone else needs it more than me, whatever, you know, I could do around that. And yeah. It's yeah. Yeah.
Morgan Garon: It's one of those things where I, and I think that's what I was kind of touching on with, with Ed's story was that he would just get rid of it.
And I have that with a lot of clients. I see that with a lot of clients, then I work with people who, you know, make anywhere I've, I've worked across the board, literally from people who are on social services and social support to people who make multiple millions of dollars. And I know some people listening are like, how could you ever have a problem if you're making hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars.
And it is insane how the problem just gets magnified the more, you make the bigger
Sarah Marshall ND: it's snow ball effect. Yeah.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. You know, I mean, I think Biggie said it best, right? Mo money. Mo problems. A lot of people will say no way they're... that just can't be the experience, but it's, it's. It's across the board, those beliefs that come with you, whereas you don't unravel some of those and you don't heal some of that old programming, however, and wherever it came from, if you don't get in there and unravel it, it can travel with you.
You know, regardless of how much money you make.
Sarah Marshall ND: Opportunities and yeah, (inaudible) totally
Morgan Garon: overcome it. And it may not be, you know, crippling to them. It may not cause problems. It may be there in the background, but for a lot of people, it is front and center. And, you know, it's one of those things where it's, if you don't define how much is enough, there will never be enough.
And it's like, you know, sometimes people who are working and maybe they're making $80,000 and they're like, okay, I'm doing well. This is the most money I've ever made. But I still feel like when I was just out of college or I had just started my first job, you know, I feel like I'm still just making $30,000 a year.
How is this possible? And that's where again, if you don't define it, if you don't know how much is enough, that income can just continue to increase. And you'll just find ways to kind of keep yourself in that same situation. And it'll always feel like, Oh, well now I need to make a hundred thousand. Oh, well that didn't do it.
Gosh. And I even had that. There's this magical Mark of a hundred thousand dollars a (Sarah: yeah) month people have (Sarah: yeah) where it's like, Oh, that's that's, that's the pinnacle. (Sarah: yeah) It's all gravy. After that, I hit that mark in my own career. And then I was like, Oh, Hmm, that's it? It felt really great for a minute. I was very proud of myself.
It was wonderful. There was a shift in life where things did get easier to a point.
Sarah Marshall ND: Oh yeah. (Morgan: You know?)
Yeah. I mean, there's, there's definitely, it was a degree of just general stress and anxiety for me. I think my, my functional income crossed. You know, cause I have like, and I, one of the places I could probably clean it up is I've not been good about differentiating personal income from my, what my business gross is.
So I will reference my business gross as my income, which is actually not accurate. It's not true. And it, and sometimes it bites me in the ass. Cause I will say things. Usually self denigrating. Jeez, Sarah, you know, you made this amount of money. Like what the hell is your problem? But like my business costs money to run and there's a PR and I'm, that's one of the things I'm at work on now.
And I have a new CPA. Who's amazing. And like, I mean, that's. You know, I think there's a lot of nuggets in here about like who you work with, having team members, having people around you and you know, whether you hire a financial coach or you, or you've got a banker you really trust. Cause there's, there's just, there's lots of resources out there around you.
One of the other things I did was. I knew there were conversations I didn't dwell in. I did grow up in a family that talked about some aspects of money. My dad did not talk about how much he made. (Morgan: No,no) there was no conversation.
Morgan Garon: That's so funny you say that. Nope, me neither,
Sarah Marshall ND: nothing. (Morgan: still to this day) We talked about budgeting. We talked about mine. I like... my parents would often do a thing if I wanted something that was a more expensive... like I grew up ski racing, which is an expensive sport. And so I would have to split things with them. If I wanted coaching the next year I had to work all summer. They usually didn't make me work year round. Cause I was training all winter.
But I'd work all summer and then all of the money I made would go towards ski coaching, new skis, whatever. And it was always like they'd split stuff with me. So I had a lot of empowerment around budgeting and managing my money and that, but like no conversations about amounts.
Morgan Garon: Yeah, no
Sarah Marshall ND: And
Morgan Garon: It's funny you say that, cause that was the same, same thing for me. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: Mom, we've already hel, held this one out. So you're going to laugh when I say this, I'm going to pick on you for a minute, but I remember a conversation that my mom had, or I said something about a quarter million dollar house and she gasped. And my interpretation was like, dude, that's only $250,000. And you're like, thinking that's like this huge amount of money. Right? And this was a long time ago, but even still like that hit me and that sat with me, right? So one of the things I did is I got into it group of people that just traffic in numbers that my brain thought were ludicrous, like mortgage brokers. I didn't have a lot of people around, like mortgage brokers were, Oh, I, you know, I did $10 million in business last year.
And I'm like, bahhh! Right? It doesn't mean they made $10 million, but that they even used those words, which I didn't have around me. And I, I actively sought out people who had different conversations about investing, about different conversations, about, buying real estate and, and having rental properties, you know?
And, and so I actually got together and I created a mastermind group with a group of friends. And the whole point was just that we talked every two weeks about investing, finance, and wealth management. (Morgan: I love it) And I did that thing, which is if you're the smartest person in the room, you need a new room, but I got a new room and I, and I, and that was six years ago.
And it's really cool. We actually still have our meetings every two weeks different members, but two, two were the same from six years ago. Wow. All three of us have had huge strides. One person, she went from being a solo practitioner. Does she now has six employees and her and her husband had not started any retirement work until I think in their fifties.
And so they'd been like moving, but stuff happen. And then another guy was, you know, working through a lot of them, but I've watched him like buy properties and have rental homes and then sell them and then use that for other. And like none of that was stuff that mine, I didn't grow up with those conversations.
I didn't have anyone around me. So I went out and looked for it. (Morgan: yeah) So it can be a coach. You can find it in your community and literally like have coffee with somebody that, you know, that's got money conversations. You don't... be willing to start talking about this.
Morgan Garon: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think he just, you're, you're speaking to the fact of normalizing the conversation and, you know, and, and expanding in your own area of what's possible for you.
You know, if you've always grappled with, with credit card debt or you're always just. Just breaking even. It is, it's hard to imagine what's outside of that, like I was saying, like, you see yourself as somebody who doesn't live outside of that box. (Sarah: yeah) And when you start just at least normalizing the conversation and hearing those other types of numbers, it's like, Oh, Wow. Okay. Well, I used to think $10,000 was a huge amount of money, which is not to say that it isn't, but when you start talking about, you know, purchasing rental properties or (Sarah: yeah) expanding your portfolio or saving for retirement, those numbers automatically get bigger.
Sarah Marshall ND: Get bigger. Yep.
Morgan Garon: And a lot of times those numbers are scary for people.
And then it's like, okay, well, if we just start talking about it, then it, it strips away the charge. (Sarah: yeah) And that's where it's like, okay, you can then start to actually dip your toes in those waters if you have never before. And I laugh because I know exactly what you mean when I worked at Merrill Lynch, ultimately is where, where my career had, had kind of led me in the long run I would on a regular basis make $25 million movements. I was trading, you know, I, I was trading and moving and. there was just a massive amount of money movement in any given day. And, you know, it might not be that much, but it often was right. And there were times where I'd laugh. I'd make an, I I'd place a trade or, you know, I, I, you know, facilitate a transaction for somebody and I would sometimes sit back, cause it didn't, it didn't feel like it even to me, but I'd sit back and I'd be like, Holy crap. How much money did I just move? You know?
Sarah Marshall ND: Right. Just moving that around. Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan Garon: You know, because after a while too, you do that, you do that so often and you do sometimes, like I started to lose the connection with how much money that actually was, because it did become so normal. and so it's funny, it's, that's where money is so abstract.
And one thing that... a little joke I always have is that money is like tofu. It just tastes like whatever you put it with.
Sarah Marshall ND: Oh my God. I love that. And I... former vegetarian. I'm stealing it because, you know, I've, I've heard things like money's energy, which I get, but it actually doesn't, it's nothing tangible for me about it. (Morgan: yeah) Right. The exchange of energy. Cause they're like, how the hell do you measure that? But what I have really seen is it is truly neutral.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. It's tofu.
Sarah Marshall ND: It's a system and you can play the system with integrity. You can play the system with compassion, you can play the system, you can hate the system. I'd be pissed at it and then see how that goes for you.
You know? Like it's like all of it. And, and so, you know, I even remember one of the first times that I actually like kinda made it out of sheer survival. It was early on in my consulting practice when I kind of like, it was like, Holy crap, okay, this is going to work. But what it took the amount of work and the, and, and because I hadn't, cause you know, I'm a bit of a, like throw me in the deep end of the pool and I'll learn how to swim kind of a girl.
So I launched into this consulting practice and I hadn't uncovered a lot of my beliefs. So I was forcing myself to do stuff that felt very uncomfortable and pushing my boundaries. And, you know, in, in the long run, it all worked out, but like, Oh my God. I mean, and I remember. I made $20,000. In one month, I had booked people into year long programs. I'd done something that was like very outside of the way that doctors usually even operate their businesses. It was like I was stealing from coaching models and other industries to put together. Now we call that concierge medicine and it has a whole freaking industry, (Morgan: it's a thing, yeah) but 10 years ago it was, it was budding; it was barely starting, you know, it's, it's so funny. Cause when I first started my consulting practice, I had people coming to me going, how are you doing that? Now people come to me, go, how are you doing that? And can you teach me? And it's so funny,
Morgan Garon: like there's a shift, right?
Sarah Marshall ND: And I didn't know I was on the front edge of something with telemedicine and with consulting work.
And like, I didn't know that. I just met this business coach who had no overhead, a cell phone and a laptop and made four times as much money as me. And I was like, that's ridiculous. Like what the heck? So I modeled my stuff after her. And, but that one month. I made 20 grand. I have never been more depressed in my life.
Morgan Garon: Wow.
Sarah Marshall ND: I was exhausted. I was angry. I was pissed at the world and like, I, it, it w it was those like, fuck the system. Why do I have to live by this? And then also this feeling defeated, like, if that's what it's going to take to be successful in life, I am quitting medicine and (Morgan: I don't want it) going back to being a river guide, like I hit that.
Morgan Garon: I get that. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: And I, for years, In early on in being a business owner threatened to go get a job. I hate this. I'm getting a job. I hate this. I'm going to go find a job, right.
Morgan Garon: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: And you know, I'm stubborn and, right. You know, it didn't go that way. And like, it is one of my pieces of pride to actually say I've actually never had a regular job. Like I was raft guide. I was a downhill ski race coach. And you know, I've worked at like a handful of box stores and, you know, I had, I was a barista in high school. Right? But like the most corporate job I ever had was when I worked for snowbird ski resort corporation as a ski instructor, you know, (Morgan: yeah) and then I went to school and I went to business for myself and you know, now I'm uber grateful for getting to, cause that was another thing like, Tim Ferriss was one of my early heroes in this whole world of balancing wealth and lifestyle. And he would talk about wealth, not equaling how much money you make.
Morgan Garon: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: But equaling three things, which is mobility, flexibility, and finance. And so it was like, how much time do you have for your life to yourself? How mobile are you or are you geographically stuck in one place? And how flexible can you be? And I can see where, that's sort of what I'm up against now from the next step is like I've made a great living and I serve people really well. And I feel like I deliver a lot of value, but I can see where I'm mobile cause, I'm tele medicine, (Morgan: yeah) but I am not flexible. Yeah. Like I have to spend an hour on a call with a client in a certain time zone.
Morgan Garon: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: A certain way. Right? And
Morgan Garon: That's exactly what I'm up against myself.
Sarah Marshall ND: That's the next challenge for me is where to actually build in that my income could continue as on course and I could spend three months writing a book or writing a course or what have you, you know, and, and allow myself the flexibility and creativity. And my stand is that: yes, that's for my own personal life, but that's also, so I could make a bigger difference. Like I can (Morgan: absolutely) see I could access more and that right now I'm like, Oh God, what the heck would that?
Morgan Garon: Yeah, I mean, and it's that's, I love the, the trifecta there and it, it kind of syncs up to something that I, that I'm always working with people on is balancing the time, energy and money.
So I always tell my clients, yeah, absolutely. We're going to count dollars. We're going to organize them. That's kind of the easiest thing to measure when I'm working with somebody because it's like dollars in, dollars out, where are they going? It's something tangible that we can look at. But inside of that, I'm also constantly looking at, you know, what's the exchange because whatever you do in life is going to take one or more of those three primary resources, your time, your energy, or your money, maybe two of them, maybe all three of them. And so where is the harmony inside of it? And that's where sometimes some, sometimes people are striving and striving and striving to make more money.
And they're, they're maxed. They're burnt out their time is, you know, in a shortfall. Their energy is depleted and it's like, okay, great. The money's coming in, but it's also going right back out the door because you're picking up delivery every night for dinner because you don't have time to cook and you're too tired.
You're paying for housekeeping because you're too exhausted and you don't want to do it. You know, you're just kind of throwing money at all of these things because your time is. It is so short. And so a lot of times that's where it's like, okay, great. By all means, get support. And sometimes that's the answer, you know, if people, if people are then on the other end of the spectrum and they're. And they're using all of their time and they're doing every single thing themselves and they're spread so thin and they're overly, overly committed to stuff. And just kind of like running and gunning on the time schedule than the, than the money might be short. And then of course the energy is short, so it's okay, how do we look at these, these three factors and find some harmony inside of all of it. And that's where you mentioned earlier tracking. That's one of, that's the first thing I have my clients do. And there's always this moment of seriously, I have to do this (Sarah: oh yeah) and then sure enough. They're like, Oh, wow.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: You know, that's where the insight and the information comes from.
Sarah Marshall ND: So I'm a total. Data geek actually like my undergraduate is in chemistry. And so like, I like numbers and it is annoying to sometimes have to put in the time to do, do the tracking, but then I always get empowered by seeing it. Right. And, and just write in the same thing. One of the breakthroughs I had again, in my conversation about myself. Right. Cause one of the other things I'd say is yeah, but I'm a naturopath and what I meant by. "Yeah. But I'm a naturopath" is I'm not a real doctor.
Morgan Garon: Oh man.
Sarah Marshall ND: And even right, (Morgan: you were just) like
Morgan Garon: cutting yourself, short, every (Sarah: oh yeah, everywhere) which way you could.,
Sarah Marshall ND: all over the place. Right.
Morgan Garon: I'm a new doctor, I'm not a real doctor. (Morgan laughs)
Sarah Marshall ND: Right. All that. And, and one of the things was there and this conversation was well I don't make doctor money. Hmm. It turns out, there is this report that comes out and I think Medscape does it. But there's a report that comes out every year about physician satisfaction and they actually analyze the data on income, time, satisfaction, how much people are, you know, whatever.
There's a bunch of indices in there. And then they put out this whole thing. And what it got me thinking about is I don't track my time. I track my money. That's it. The only the way that I would decide whether or not my, because this was successful or I had done my job, the only measurement I was using was how much money was in my bank account. (Morgan: yeah)
It was interesting too. It wasn't even how much money I brought in. It was how much money was in my bank account. (Morgan: oh wow) What was, I started to track more things like how much I grossed and how much I spent and how much time I was spending. And I even also started to track how many conversations I had, how many lives I was touching, how many people I was making a difference for in different ways.
And I actually, it was 2012 that I started this process and I have been expanding it ever since. I have a worksheet that I got from a business coach, from a multilevel marketing company. And the, it basically is like a quarterly review. And I complete my quarter. I acknowledge what I did do. I acknowledge what I didn't do.
And part of it is, is measuring these things and looking and tracking them. And then I create what my next quarter is going to be about. And I had another business coach later on who had me track days of travel, days of vacation, how many different cities I went to, anything that mattered to me and like travel mattered to me.
He had me track how many days I spent with my family and what I started to get is: I take a lot of time off. I have a big life. I do a lot of things other than work. And so I started to run the numbers and based off of this Medscape report, I actually saw when I tracked my time and I noticed... I totally make doctor money.
I just don't work 60 hours a week. Like the average physician does. And it was, that was only a few years ago. I think I had that one is 2018, 2019, but it was that was revolutionary.
Morgan Garon: That's an epiphany.
Sarah Marshall ND: And all that was was because I was willing to track and look at the data, otherwise that would have gone right past me. And I could've stayed in that because my annual income doesn't equal the annual income of average physicians, then I don't make doctor money and whatever (Morgan: therefore..) that was words made-- meant to me. Right. Yeah. Total like poof, the brain near the world changed for me. And I got, I was choosing it. I was choosing the energy, time, money ratio.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. And that's, and that's what I love about it. It's, it's seeing where it goes, because if you don't track it, you can't change it. And what happens a lot of times is when you start tracking it, you start seeing all of the things that you are actually accomplishing. Like a lot of times when I take somebody through, you know, the process and we've been doing it for, you know, I work with people for an extended amount of time, minimum six months, but most of my clients, you know, 18, 24 months, And on because what we start working on on day one evolves and changes into some very different conversations as we progress. But there's always this point somewhere around the 90 day mark, where we've got enough information in the system, I use this tool to track everything and to do planning with people. And there's this much at 90 days where we can kind of get an average off of what you've been spending and what your expenses are, because most of the time, if people are doing any sort of planning at all, they're looking at, okay, well, here's what I spent last month. So it'll probably be something similar to this month. And one of the first things I teach people is that there's no such thing as a normal month.
If it's not one thing, it's another, it's the holidays, it's a car repair. It's that bill, you got sick, income went down, expenses went up, whatever the case may be. And so we get this average. And people say, Oh wow! Whatever it is! Sometimes it's Oh, wow. I'm spending way more than I thought. Yeah. Sometimes it's Oh, wow. That's not that bad. Right. Sometimes it's Oh my gosh. How much am I possibly spending on food, which is always kind of the biggest culprit for people.
But it's always this moment of awareness and realization that comes together for people, where the tracking becomes incredibly valuable. Because what I tell people, I always tell people I don't, I actually don't care what you do with your money.
As long as you're using it in alignment to what you tell me matters most to you. Yeah. So I don't come to this work with an agenda to get you to save more or pay off your debt. Yes. I want those things for you because I know what that's going to do for you.
Yeah. But it's
more about, let's define what you tell me is most important, and then let's make sure the money is going in that direction.
And when you start tracking, when people start tracking, they realize. Oh, wow. Look how much I am spending in these areas that don't mean anything to me.
Sarah Marshall ND: Totally. Yeah. It's like kind of, I call that easy money. Yeah. It's like, you just earned yourself easy money. Cause you're like, Oh, I don't even, why am I? No. Yughh!
Morgan Garon: It's like: Poof! I can give that up without even thinking twice about it. It's like a no brainer. I always call it low-hanging fruit. Yeah. And that's kind of the first round of revisions that I'll make with somebody it's like, okay, let's cut the fluff.
Sarah Marshall ND: Totally like, Oh, this is one of the things I saw it too, is when I actually started making enough money that I didn't have to keep being freaked out about paying my bills, I stopped tracking. (Mogan: Oh that's) I was like too. I mean, that was one of the end. Thank you, dad. In order for my dad to contribute to my college life, I had to submit budget reports and actually make the requests for what I needed. (Morgan: brilliant!) And so he had bought me a computer and loaded it up with QuickBooks or Quicken, Quicken. I think it was at the time.
Morgan Garon: Good job, dad
Sarah Marshall ND: and, and I, and I, I was nerd alert. Right? I was all over the. Spreadsheets and the data and whatever
Morgan Garon: Well yeah! You wanted that Money
Sarah Marshall ND: Until I made more money than I technically needed. And when that moment happened, it was like I stopped tracking and you know, what actually turned me around.
Morgan Garon: That happens all the time.
Sarah Marshall ND: It was a couple of years later and I was doing backlogs of accounting and slogging through it. And I kept finding these, sometimes as much as $500, I was like, I finally realized I had had fraud. Oh, every year, somewhere between 250 and 500 bucks that somehow through whatever financial app or something, just got never caught no idea.
It wasn't me. And, and I'm like, I literally just threw away $500 that I could have made a claim about, but now I didn't even catch it for a year. So I can't make a claim now. And I'm like (inaudible) you've got to track this stuff better. Like you've got to just knock that out, so then I cleaned up my act and I've been. It's what I'm working on is actually having everything up to date. I still have a tendency to do it in six month batches.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. I tell people, I tell people once a once a week, an hour, a week, you need to have, you need to have your money date, your money date. (Sarah: yeah) You sit down, you've got a relationship. You're working with a relationship. (Sarah: totally) If you had a friend or a partner or loved one who you only paid attention to every six months (Sarah laughs)
Sarah Marshall ND: how do you think they'd treat you?
Morgan Garon: Are they going to hang around? (Sarah: right? yeah!) Are they going to hang around? Are they going to give a shit? Like, no, they're not. And so it's, this, it is a relationship.
It's one of our longest standing relationships outside of yourself and your faith. Money, it's there from day one. And I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. So, you know, it's like, do you, do you give it the time and attention that it deserves is your money worth your time?
Sarah Marshall ND: I love that you just said that, because I literally do the same thing about your health.
Morgan Garon: I'm like if your body, if your body, and I say it was a family member because you choose your friends, but you don't choose your family. If your body was a family member, what would your relationship be like? If you even talk to it at all, do you yell at it? Do you call it names? Like it's literally that the parallels are,
There
Sarah Marshall ND: you go!
Morgan Garon: You said earlier, you know, so much of the language is the same, I mean, health, wellness money, and it is, it's a cornerstone of, of your wellbeing. and it's one of those things where, you know, if you're not hands on and you're not touching it and you're not looking at it. Okay. You may not be having problems, so to speak. However I can, guarantee that you are missing opportunities.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: And so it's just, it's it's do you put yourself in the driver's seat with your money and do you give it the time and attention it deserves and, you know, through doing that work and just being hands on and building your awareness and building your connection, all sorts of stuff starts to open up. So you may find just little nickel and dime things. You may find fraud. You know, I've got people all the time who are like, I had a carwash subscription and I was paying $35 a month. And then I was still paying for Pandora and I was still paying for audible, but I thought I canceled it, you know, eight months ago.
And before they know it, it's sometimes, you know, a hundred bucks a month worth of stuff. (Sarah: mhm) All right. It doesn't sound like a whole heck of a lot, but you know, that's $1,200 for the year that's after tax money, so it's really you know, $2,000 a year. That you now don't have to generate, so that's when people talk about the energy of it, that's kind of the component. It's like, if that's leaking out, it's just zapping the energy everywhere.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: And it's just these little leaks that if you seal those up, you start to get a compounding positive effect. So, and it's, and it all starts with tracking. I hear people all the time say. Actually one of the number one things I hear people say is I just want to make enough that I don't have to look at my money.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: Which is what you just said. And what I am here to dispel is that that is, that does not exist. (Sarah: it's never going away) There is not a point in time. And that's where I say, you know, I work with people who literally make multiple millions of dollars a year. And if they don't look at it, it's the same thing. And again, I know that might sound crazy to some people, but the bills just get bigger.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah. No
Morgan Garon: things just get more expensive and if you're not looking at it, you're in the same boat.
Sarah Marshall ND: I had a friend who's just meals and entertainment expense was more than my annual income, (Morgan: I've seen it. I've seen it) you know, because, and like they throw whole football parties for their entire company and they, you know, they would feed 10 people a day, you know, on a regular basis. It just had expanded.
Morgan Garon: And like that's where, that's where doing the work to track it and plan it and just build that awareness, that's where I tell people all the time, once you see where it's going, then you can decide if that's where you want it to continue to go.
Some of it, you're going to know right off the bat. Nope. Get rid of it. That's not worth it. And then other stuff, you're going to look at it and say, yeah, I'm cool with that. That works for me. That? Great. Keep it in. But when you kind of comb through it and pull out all the stuff that doesn't matter, that's where the opportunity comes from. That's where the savings that's where the retirement, the investing, the debt repayment, the security, the satisfaction, the confidence, that's where all of that stuff can be found. So it's near and dear to my heart, tracking and, and using all of the numbers for information. It's it really is where the, where the victory comes from.
Sarah Marshall ND: I'm sure you probably have an opinion about this. I do think there's a lot of power in doing it yourself, for lots of reasons. And, and I know that is something though that you can delegate, you can have somebody crunch it for you. And I still think though, you've got to set yourself up though, where you were at least pouring over the reports, you've got your fingers in all of it.
And I do find that, you know, I'd hired bookkeepers for a couple of those years in there. And it was interesting because really all that did was just meant. I really didn't have to look at it. Yeah. And, and then I was paying for quick--. One of the things I actually saw was I was paying for QuickBooks online, which I used to use the software on my desktop and sorry, QuickBooks, but like, I couldn't stand how the online program worked.
And I realized like that was actually one of my expenses and, you know, I am pretty good with spreadsheets. And so I actually did all of my accounting by hand for the first time last year. And it was actually way better because I had to touch every transaction. And in doing that, it was that much more visceral.
Like one of this is a funny parallel, but, I think it's Marie Condon (Morgan: Marie Kondo) who wrote the book about the, the magical miracle being tidy. And she's got that whole thing about going through your house and if you're going to sort the objects, you have to touch every object. You have to physically pick it up and you have to feel in your body.
Like, does this bring me joy? And I basically did that with my accounting last year. I touched every transaction and I didn't quite consciously, but it really was like, is this worth it to me? Does this matter to me? You know? And then by having to hand categorize it and think about what I'm, I mean, it was an, and.
Honestly, because I just sorted things on my spreadsheet. It took me three hours. To do a year's worth of categorizing things, because I it's just me. I didn't have that many transactions. And I was dumbfounded that, like this had been something that I not only was not doing well, disorganized about, but I was also paying for software that it wasn't even serving my needs. (Morgan: yeah all the time)
So that was another one of those I broke out of it.
Morgan Garon: All the time. There's all those little things where it's like, okay, I'm not using that anymore, but I'm still paying for it. And they, and they add up. Right. And okay. Maybe that's not going to be enough to change your life. You're not going to (Sarah: no, it was 20 bucks a month, but) find enough (inaudible) to where life is different,
but it's, it's the step it's going (Sarah: yeah) through the process. And I love that you just said that because Ed's mom calls me the Marie Kondo of money. (laughs)
Sarah Marshall ND: Oh my Gosh. Yes. Cause that's literally, I was like, that's what I'm getting. Yeah.
Morgan Garon: Yeah, yeah. And it is it's it's. My process is a very hands on high touch process. Now you're right. So you can delegate that out. You can hire up some support and I would say, depending on your level of discomfort is, is how you would want to determine if you're getting support with that. If you're kind of just like, you know, I just don't really know where I'm at and I just need a little bit of help. Sure. Somebody else can help you with your numbers.
But if you're the type of individual who is chronically stressed or frustrated, or in that state of financial insecurity, you're not going to get away. You're not going to get around it without touching your money.
Sarah Marshall ND: You've got to do it. You have to do it.
Morgan Garon: Yeah, you've got to (inaudible)
Sarah Marshall ND: and you got to work through whatever the resistance is of why you don't want (Morgan: yeah) to. I mean,
Morgan Garon: yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: Even like money is evil. I mean, I, you know, I grew up in a pretty hippy, wasn't even people. It wasn't like, I actually didn't have a thing that like all rich people are jerks or anything like that. I had that just money itself. You know, and it came a lot from my cultural upbringing of Zen world, hippie, whatever was it sort of this like, damn, the man capitalism is ruining, you know, how we take care of human beings and it wasn't even that loud, but it was still impacting.
Morgan Garon: Yup.
Sarah Marshall ND: How I dealt with things.
Morgan Garon: So there you go. So that's the flavor. That's what I mean about the Tofu. It picked up the flavor of that, where it's like, okay, then that's kind of how money sits with you going forward. And that's where it's like, okay. If, if, if money is wrapped inside of a negative context, you're going to have to unravel that to, to, to begin to have a healthy relationship. And sometimes I've had people say, well, what is a relationship to money? What do you even mean? And it's just, how do you relate to money? (Sarah: yeah) How do you relate to your money? Like, how do you think of it? How do you engage with, with it? And if you've got, you know, a dark sense of money. (Sarah: yeah) That's gonna take some doing to, to kind of shine the light in there and say, Oh, okay. That's not necessarily true. And you hear the quote all the time of money is the root of all evil. That's an inaccurate quote. The actual quote is the love of money is the root of all evil. And, and it may even be slightly different than that, but the actual (sarah: yeaS) the concept behind it is the love of money (Sarah: yeah) and what man will do to other human beings to get it (Sarah: right) . And, and what they're willing to sacrifice and what they're willing (Sarah: yep) to do and all of that. So it's the love. And I would even probably replace that with lust, if I could actually (inaudible)
Sarah Marshall ND: Totally. Right. Like, cause I, what I was going to say is I've actually come to a place where I, I really have fallen in love with money and I it's a fun game to me and I, I got through a place. And it, and I know it's too easy to say, Oh yeah, Sarah it's cause you made it more money. And that's why that's not what happened. I fell in love with money and it became a fun game and that's, what's given me the acuity to work with it. And actually, you know, I don't do it as a major part of my business, but I've done business consulting and coaching with other naturopath and health coaches. And this is a huge area that we work on is value, self-worth, their language around money, how they language. Cause like in our practice, a lot of times they'll say things like, you know, fish oil is so expensive and I drives me nuts. I'm like, Plavix is expensive. It's 500 there's a month for Plavix, without insurance. Fish oil is 50 bucks a bottle for a month. And they both potentially not always could do the same thing in somebody's body.
Morgan Garon: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: And like, those are things that I watch my colleagues spit out of their mouth all the time and they will then get that all over their patients, you know, and like dollar for dollar, if somebody is paying me cash versus actually going to their doctors and that's covered by insurance. Yeah. It's a different amount of money they have to expend. But when you look at the reality of it, You know, a basic heart attack, which lots of people know is going to happen to them or one of their family members just getting in and out of the hospital, I've Googled it.
It averages $40,000.
Morgan Garon: Wow.
Sarah Marshall ND: That's uncomplicated. Not along stay no ICU, like just 40 grand right there. I had a former client called me and said that he had a fainting attack, but because he fell on the counter, he had chest pain, like a, he hit the counter physically. But because he said he had chest pain, they thought he was having a heart attack.
So his hospital bill was $15,000 and there was nothing wrong with him, but a bruised rib. Oh boy. Right now his insurance did cover it. So his out-of-pocket was like $1,200. So I do get that, but like to pay attention, you know? And so there's a lot in our different industries, even that, that some of that colors, our relationship to money
Morgan Garon: Oh absolutely. It's everywhere. It's such a long standing relationship that every single person has. I don't know if there's something that's more nuanced that we deal with on a daily basis.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: I mean, ask 10 different people. What money is, and you'll get 10 different answers,
Sarah Marshall ND: totally.
Morgan Garon: And ask 10 different people. How much is a good living and you'll get 10 different answers. Ask any (Sarah: yeah) survey about money and you get just results all over the board. Sometimes again, there's those common threads, (Sarah: yeah) but there's, there are so many subtle nuances to it.
Sarah Marshall ND: It's highly personal
Morgan Garon: yeah, it's cultural.
It's, you know, it's based off of gender, it's based off of age, it's based off of all sorts of different things of, you know, socio-economical status and things like that of, of, you know, what do you think? How is your money flavored?
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: And that's where it's like just, just tuning in and listening and starting to touch it and, and engage in the conversation. That's where the power comes from, because then you never know what's going to open up (Sarah: yep) outside of that, but that's where you start to then say, Oh, hey, Oh look, I could do it, do this a little differently.
And you know, like you were just saying, you've fallen in love with it. And sure. That would be easy to point at, well, yeah, you make more money. So of course that's easy. and there is a point there's a point of about, I think it might be a little bit higher these days, but there's a point of about $75,000 where once you make up to $75,000, your quality of life doesn't proportionately get better. After that point, your level of happiness, your level of stress, there is a point, but it's up to about $75,000. And then after that, it's not directly linked to your financial wellbeing. Sure. You might be able to pay for more trips that are more entertaining and things like that. Yeah. There's obviously benefits that come out of it,
Sarah Marshall ND: but it doesn't proportionally increase your happiness.
Morgan Garon: It's not proportionate, no. And so sure money can make life easier. I'm never going to be the person who says that it doesn't.
Sarah Marshall ND: Well and health does too. I mean, I that's actually in like, again, another layer of the language is like, I talk about having a health bank account and making deposits on a regular basis in your health bank account.
And then you can make withdraws, right. You can go have your heyday in Vegas for the weekend, or you can go run a marathon, whatever version of a withdrawal is on your body. But if you are not dealing with, and most people operate like being healthy is when they have $0 in the bank account. When there's no pain and they don't have symptoms.
That would be the equivalent of saying you're wealthy when you're debt free, but you literally have no cash. (Morgan: wow yeah) And so like, there's so many parallels here and it's exactly that same thing is... and actually, you know, I'm watching myself bump into that same thing we started with of like, Oh, you're not supposed to talk about money and blahdity-blahdity-blah.
Morgan Garon: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: The reality is I think that there is like having everybody have that working wage and being able to have a cultural system where people are taking care of, it, it does solve a lot of things. It would solve a huge amount of things to have. I mean, it's so it's so outside of the way we operate that to even be able to comprehend, what would it be like...I'm going to even say the whole world, but for sure, if every American minimum, they all had $35,000 a year.
Morgan Garon: What would life look like? Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: Right. Like, and what would be possible in education and what would that do to crime rates and what would that do to our health and wellbeing? And like, cause I mean, there's a whole world of people that they are not going to be able to work with me and access and they don't access naturopathic medicine as easily because we do tend to be out of pocket. Not always, (Morgan: mhm) but like. And they just can't get to those resources. That would make a huge difference in their health and wellbeing. Like, but if they had the money, they could,
Morgan Garon: Well, yeah. But then that's where I also say, if you don't then also do the work to support it, that's where those that's where those habits and patterns play out.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Morgan Garon: So I love the idea and I know that there would then also have to be resources,
Sarah Marshall ND: You'd have to deal with like education and like how we manage things. Yeah.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. And so, so in that conversation of, you know, some sort of a universal income and things like that, I do think that that's the piece that's missing.
It's like, okay. That would literally make a world of difference. (Sarah: And!) And well, and people would also have to then have, you know, kind of the support and the resources and, and be able to learn how to use it because otherwise just like we've been talking about all along, more money and then the patterns and the habits just go up along with it.
Sarah Marshall ND: Totally.
Morgan Garon: So I love the concept and really what I think is it's the conversation. It's keeping the conversation going. That's why it's critical to me. And that's why I love doing this. So it's been so good chatting with you.
Sarah Marshall ND: Oh my gosh, this is awesome. Yeah, (inaudible) totally. Clearly we could do this all day and Oh my gosh, Morgan. It was just so awesome. And thank you for your. Passion your sunshine and just bringing this in and two subjects that can be dark and dingy and scary, and we avoid it and we boast about it, but we don't tell the truth about it or whatever, you know, and like, yeah, it's uh healing our relationship to money is a big part of having that quality of life.
Morgan Garon: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. It's, it's my favorite thing to do is sit and talk about this with people and help, you know, help others kind of see what might be possible for them. So thank you for everything you're doing to create this space of wellness and healing and transformation.
It's critical. So thanks for having me and thanks for doing it.
You bet my dear until next time. We'll see you soon.
Okay. Sounds good. Thanks Sarah.
Sarah Marshall ND: Thank you to today's guest Morgan Garon for sharing her heart and her shine. If HEAL's been making a difference for you, we would greatly appreciate it if you left us a review on your favorite platform, so we can reach more people and help heal our world. For a full transcript and all the resources for today's show visit SarahMarshallND.com/podcast. Want to keep the conversation going, have ideas or a healing story to share? Send us your thoughts, wants for future episodes, or questions by contacting us at SarahMarshallND.com or on Instagram at @SarahMarshallND. And always a special thanks to our music, composer Roddy Nikpour and our editor Kendra Vicken. We'll see you next time.