Dr. Sarah Marshall on How to Start Healing
Up until this point, we’ve sort of shied away from being a How-To podcast. But three seasons in, we know that many of you are inspired to start gaining control of your health. But how do you do that? Dr. Sarah Marshall is going to discuss the basics and teach you how to start healing.
Referenced in the Show
General Health Tips
Start by eating only unprocessed foods: Nothing that comes in a box, can or package (Buy meat that’s the cut as it would come off the animal (no additives). Buy organic, free range, grass fed where possible. Best buy directly from farmers www.eatwild.com)
Eat 6 cups of vegetables per day
Eat 3-4 oz. of protein at each meal
Drink a gallon of water for 2 weeks then adjust to 1/2 your body weight in ounces (ex 150lb person drinks 75oz water)
Vitamins and Minerals (always speak with your physician before adding supplements)
B-Complex
Multi-Mineral
Magnesium (Magnesium glycinate, magnesium citrate, magnesium malate, or tri-mag).
If you have a stomach sensitivity to magnesium, magnesium malate or glycinate are the most absorbable.
Probiotics
At-home GI transit test: Take 7 capsules of charcoal (wait 4+ hours after any other medication) and see when the black stool passes. Should be 18–24 hours. If it takes longer, you should consider taking a probiotic & eating more fibrous veggies.
Fish oil
Vitamin D
Good resources for learning about supplements
Sleep
Go to bed at 10 p.m. and wake up without an alarm for 7 days. Figure out what your average amount of sleep necessary is.
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Sarah’s Bio
Dr. Sarah Marshall is an educator, speaker, and advocate for the holistic healthcare model. She currently resides in Salt Lake City, UT, and, when not practicing medicine, can be found traveling, skiing, hiking, running, sailing, and generally having the adventures of a lifetime. Read Dr. Marshall’s full bio.
Kendra’s Bio
Kendra is a marketing expert and artist based in Salt Lake City, UT. In addition to painting and the work she does for her wonderful clients, Kendra enjoys beekeeping, holding her chickens, cuddling her dogs, and adventuring with her husband and daughter. You can connect with Kendra here.
Full Transcript
Kendra Vicken: Welcome to Heal. I’m normally your producer but today, I’ll be interviewing Dr. Sarah Marshall for the final episode of Season 3. Up until this point, we’ve sort of shied away from being a How-To podcast. But three seasons in, we know that many of you are inspired to start gaining control of your health. But how do you do that? Dr. Sarah Marshall and I are going to discuss the basics and teach you how to start healing. I’m Kendra Vicken and this is Heal.
(music)
Kendra Vicken: So here we are, again, back for another episode 13, this time for season three, and we are almost rounding out to a year of the podcast. How are you feeling Sarah?
Sarah Marshall ND: Excited. Good. Kind of in awe of like what's happened and what's gotten created and Yeah. Like when we first started, it was just, my whole thing was like, could we do this for a year? So I have a little bit of like, Shit. What are we gonna talk about now? Like, I mean, we've been like, what else did we do saying, and then season three has been all about going beyond and what have we had not even considered.
And, you know, we're already starting to record and formulate season four, which you guys will see soon and coming to a podcast station near you. And like, it's like, what do we still need to talk about? And then I'm like, well then what are we going to do in season five? But that's, what's so cool is like each season there's this kind of natural next step. So I just keep trusting that and rad, awesome, extraordinary people keep showing up to be interviewed and I keep pushing my own boundaries of challenging myself. And so, yeah, this has been quite a Epic healing journey
Kendra Vicken: and we've interviewed some amazing people this season.
We, there are some that I, that I keep telling everybody about, especially for me, that was Olaf stall, his episode about ping pong and table tennis and the healing powers of staying active, even some small ways like that. I think I've told like pretty much everyone I've had a conversation with since I edited that episode is about that. It just, you know, things we don't normally think of. Is there any standout episodes for you this season?
Sarah Marshall ND: Man at one level, of course there's like, well, all of them, but there's definitely I kind of love the juxtaposition of season three because early on we started to get into the spiritual and psychic and intuitive sides of both being a practitioner and being a patient.
We had Cory Madia share about her, you know, six, seven year journey with Lyme's disease and you know, how that's actually heightened her experience of her connection to her intuition and needing to listen to things beyond the physical. And then my teacher who taught me about being a medical intuitive Liliana Barzola was, you know, here, with amazing things to say about that world of healing, but then also what it is for her as a Latino woman, as a business owner, dealing with, you know, our cultural issues of race, our cultural issues of discrimination against people who don't have as much economic resources. So like that got teased out of that conversation.
All the way to, I'm going to put it in my words, the other extreme with Dr. Guy Maytal and Dr. Jamal Atalla who come from very traditional, highly esteemed medical backgrounds. You know, Guy has been a professor in numerous medical schools and came from his work in Boston and is now in New York city speaking from the position of a psychiatrist dealing with, you know, what does it even mean when we diagnose a disease at the psychological level? What does it do to people for people? Where is it empowering? Where is it a trap? And then Jamal, just coming in hot after 25 plus years as a kidney doctor launching himself into the world of lifestyle medicine and trying to figure out where can some integrative medicine play a role in traditional practice. So like we talked about psychic illnesses and we talked about like diabetes 101 and the like front lines of being an MD. So I just love that we covered so much territory this year, this year, this season.
Kendra Vicken: Not to mention, you got to interview Dallas Hartwig who, when you and I were planning for this to begin with, I was like, all right, give me your dream list. And you're like, well, I really would want to interview Dallas Hartwig, but you know, I don't feel like I can ask him that, you know, yet. And here we are before the year was even over.
Sarah Marshall ND: And he now laughs at me because we're friends and we've gone for hikes together. And he's like, I'm not sure if you're confused or just really acknowledging. And I'm like, I, I don't think I'm confused. He's, you know, co-author of the whole 30 and it starts with food to New York times bestselling books that, you know, have been a pinnacle of my nutritional information that I give all of my clients for the last 12 years were books that he wrote. And so he'd always been a hero of mine for a long time. And I stumbled across his blog, I think, four years ago, and found out that he lived in Salt Lake city. And so I've been kind of like stalking him in a loving way, you know, and, and, and we connected a couple of years ago, but it didn't, you know, fully blast them into a friendship, but it really has now. And that was just an honor and it was so fun. And we didn't talk about food. We didn't talk about nutrition. We got into the dynamics of the feminine, the masculine and healing the masculine and, and the, the masculine evolution of life. I I'm still wrapping my head around that episode, but it was awesome.
Kendra Vicken: That is awesome. Another one of my favorite episodes this season was a Accala's episode about her pregnancy following 11 miscarriages. And I shared a little bit on the last episode 13 for season two about my miscarriage. And hopefully it's okay if I share this, but now I'm pregnant again, which is super exciting. And her episode, there's one line in her episode that I repeat to myself almost every day, which is that I will believe that all is well and good until I have irrefutable evidence to the contrary. And I feel like after loss it's been easy for me and like this place of being pregnant after having a miscarriage to be like really convinced it's just going to happen badly again, because that's what my, you know, I've never had a pregnancy workout, you know, I've just had the one loss, which is not uncommon, but in my brain, it's like, now I'm afraid that's all my body knows how to do. And so hearing her speak on that and hearing that line it's any time I see that anxiety sneak up for me, I've, that's kind of become my mantra. I've stolen that from her of, you know, I will believe that things are fine until I have proof otherwise. And. And they're at man every season there's just stuff that really hits home. And I'm sure for all the listeners, too, that it might even be different than what it was for you or what it was for me.
And that actually could be a cool thing for all you listeners out there to share with us. If you would send it to Sarah on social media, on Instagram at Sarah Marshall MD or on her website, SarahMarshallnd.com. We'd love to hear what things are sticking out for you guys in these episodes this season or prior seasons that have really continued to resonate with you.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah. And I just want to, on the coattails of what you're sharing about what Kayla said is you know, we had a surprise guest that I wasn't, I didn't, I didn't know when this was going to happen. I knew it was going to happen, but a really dear, dear, dear friend of mine, Jared Bringhurst who is an entrepreneur and his life has been about a business and he's not in the wellness field.
And we were talking the other day and he was sharing, you know, he's gone, you know, filed bankruptcy twice. He's currently in the midst of a divorce and I, you know, 13 years of marriage and 16 years of relationship. And we decided to really look at what does it take to heal failure. Cause that's a whole nother aspect of our overall wellbeing is dealing with these events and instances in our lives where things don't go as planned: pregnancies, marriages, businesses, careers, you know, all kinds of things.
And so that. I love getting to kind of bring a whole different cut in on a subject matter that's not directly wellness, but yet it so is, and I, many of my clients, that's the thing they struggle with when they start working with me is like feeling like they're failing at the treatment plan, feeling like they're failing to meet my expectations, changing their diet.
You know, we end up talking a lot about perfectionism and control and our fear of failure and our concerns for doing things perfect or, you know, whatever that is. And. So it was really awesome to get to dive into, you know, someone who has been at highs. I mean, you know, he's had $20 million businesses and he's also filed bankruptcy and lived in people's basements in order to make out what do you need to do next in his life. So we had this broad sweeping spectrum of all of it, and yeah, definitely would love to hear from people. What resonates, what are they loving? What do they want more of? You know, anywhere we can keep building into what the audience wants. I'm all for it.
Kendra Vicken: That's great. And there really is some great deep dive stuff in each one of these episodes. And people know, you know, that you are a naturopathic doctor. That's why you do this and that you do are hiring for patients. Are you still hiring for patients? I know we were putting that in beginning of some of the episodes…?
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah, I still actually do have a few openings, although I had a remarkable onslaught in January. Might've had something to do with the podcasts. So I, I do have a couple month waiting list, but they're actually still are. And then typically by about the end of the spring time, I'm pretty much closed for much of the year. Not always, you always can contact me and find out. But yeah, I actually do still have some room in my practice at this point.
Kendra Vicken: That's awesome. But as you and I talked about too, there was some people who, maybe that's not accessible to them, or maybe they're just brand new to the idea of being healthy. I think we all understand the concepts in general of like, all right, maybe don't eat soda and drink a ton of cigarettes and do hard drugs
Sarah Marshall ND: I’d like to see you drink cigarettes! Don't drink soda and don't smoke cigarettes. And those things definitely will in general help our overall health and wellbeing. Yup.
Kendra Vicken: Oh my goodness. That's funny. But I feel like a lot of people don't know or are new to going deeper than that, you know, what does it mean to be healthy for people who want to get healthy, especially at the time of recording this.
And it'll be a little bit later than this when it comes out, but we're still in January. So on the top of my mind is new year's resolutions and picking diets and health plans. And I feel like there are a lot of people, even, you know, some of our listeners who do have that interest in being healthy, that aren't really sure where the heck to start. So let's, you know, spend some of this episode as we discussed, trying to help people navigate that. Where what do you, so let's start with that basic question and we can go a little deeper, but if someone is looking to get healthy, how the heck do they start that journey?
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah, that's awesome. And I love the way you opened it and it also can be like, even if you have been on the health journey, I have to restart often.
And sometimes me and my friends and people I know that have done cleanses, they've done diets. They've done things we still deal with. Oh my God. Okay. I know I need to do something, but I've done all these things and I don't know. Should I do them again? Should I do something different like there, so it doesn't really even matter if this is brand new to you, or if you have experience with, you know, mess around in this area or not. I know that before I went to medical school, you know, I was back in the day when we went to Barnes & Noble to look for books, which I did do, you know, I'd be hanging out in the wellness section and I just be rifling through all these different books and there were hundreds and it was like a South beach diet or this or that, you know, it's just like, I would just pick and choose and be like, well, let's try this one and see what happens.
So I think it's a really, really good question. So bottom line is if you're looking to get healthier, where do you start? My, my mentor, always is... so Dr. Tom has naturopath of 40 plus years and my mentor, he was a professor of mine. He's also my personal physician. He always said, you want to start top down with like the most essential things to life.
And if you actually think about it from that philosophy, you can go weeks without food and you can go days without water, but you can't go much more than a couple of minutes without breathing. So he would say breathe first. And what I love about that is it's very accessible. We do it all day long anyways. It's not like a new behavior, but actually slowing down, taking deep, full breaths, breathing with your stomach, breathing with your full chest. And I'm not going to give a little orientation here of like the technique there's actually all kinds of really great work on YouTube and you can find kind of information all over the internet of different practices for deep breathing or full breathing.
Wim Hoff is a very popular way of going about that and very effective and grounded in some really good roots of healing and medicine. And just even acknowledging that., I don't know, 80% of us pretty much don't ever breathe fully and naturally. And it has to do with your posture. It has to do with all kinds of things.
So that's the easy access point and you know, what can that do for you? It can increase your energy. It can decrease blood pressure. It can decrease anxiety. It can help with emotional balance. So there is actually a lot of physiology that that will start to impact. I think we've mentioned this resource before, but it's worth saying again, which is there's a company called heart math that has been doing a lot of research on lowering blood pressure and supporting cardiac health by balancing the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems.
And they do it by monitoring heart rate variability. So your heart beats a certain number of beats per minute, but it sometimes beats quickly and then slowly, and the amount of variability, the way that your heart rate is going is showing you whether you're more stressed out or you're more relaxed, the less variability, the more consistency, the more relaxed you are, and you change that through your breathing.
So they have a little device that clips onto your finger and it monitors that. And you're actually able to literally see on a screen, the shifts and changing that breathing can make to your whole nervous system, which will then loop into cardiac health, heart health, you know, all those kinds of things.
Now. If you just breathe and you do that for the next 30 to 60 days, what it won't do or impact the other two things. It's mostly what people come for, which is to lose weight, to look better. They may help you with feeling better, but it's a little bit like. Not, it's not the thing that I always see makes the biggest results the fastest.
So I kind of went contrary to my mentor and he always said that his job was to raise us up and then to have us go beyond the level that he went. So like, I'm going to say I do it differently where I start people with food because changing or altering how you eat. Is one of the fastest ways to alter how you feel in your body and also how you look.
And so I am a big proponent of a whole foods based diet, so not having any processed food at all. And how do you know it's processed? Because it comes in a package, any package. So a box of crackers that says whole grain. Isn't whole grain anymore. That's now a marketing gimmick, it's flour that good ground up and added preservatives cause as soon as you break open the seed of the flour, you have to add preservatives to keep it in balance while it's in the box. So you just can't, there's no way it can stay in its natural form. So whole foods are literally exactly the way they were found in nature. So that would be the wheat Berry, which nobody eats the whole Berry.
They eat only ground up flour. You can eat whole rice though, and you can eat whole quinoa, like you can have grains at that level. And just that step from convenience foods and packaged foods to whole foods is a big step. I mean, there's cooking involved. There's new planning. There's, you know, new grocery shopping. That's involved in all of that, but it's one of the greatest ways you can start to impact no matter what you're dealing with, because you're reducing the chemical toxicity load. You're reducing inflammation, you know, and there's two ways I recommend going about it. And it depends on your personality.
Some people are like cold Turkey type. They got to just fully commit and go all in and say like, I'm just doing this. And they get everything cleaned out of their house, everything cleaned out of their space and they go a hundred percent all at once. If that's your type, there's no problem. It works great.
But we have a tendency to kind of think that's the only way to do it. And it's not, like that's an awesome way to do it, but for some people that's just, I mean, talk about dealing with failure. It's just going to trigger too much internally, or it's just going to seem too undoable and then we quit and we don't stick with it.
So then my other recommendation is to literally start with like one meal a day. So pick breakfast, lunch, or dinner, pick the easiest one to change. I recommend breakfast just because it'll make the biggest difference in how people feel throughout the day. If you start eating eggs and sauteed vegetables every morning for breakfast or a smoothie, that's not too loaded with fruit, but it has like a combination of fruit and vegetables or, you know, fruit and greens.
You'll start to feel differences throughout your entire day, but even still, like if lunch is the easiest thing to change, then change lunch. If dinner's easiest thing to change, then just start that and just do that for two weeks. Then now that you've got those routines in place, pick the next one. So now you're getting two meals out of your day that are balanced the like bottom line statement that I recommend if you want to just start shifting things is to eat protein at every meal, six cups of vegetables a day and a gallon of water. You can eat anything else you want, you can drink anything else you want. Now, if you actually do that, if you eat three to six ounces of animal protein at every single meal and six cups of vegetables a day, and you drink a gallon of water, the secret is there's not a lot of room left for a whole lot else, so it kind of pushes out, but it, for me, I don't deal well with like restriction mindset. You know, when people tell me I can't do something, the first thing I'm looking for is the loophole around it. Like, it's just how I'm wired. So I don't deal very well with like hardcore diet cleanses and specific rules and stuff. Like my brain is already calculating for how to get around it. So I need something that gives me the freedom in my choices and that I'm more likely to be successful. So that's the place I would start is with food.
Kendra Vicken: So I actually have some questions about that that maybe will sound stupid. I don't know. There's no stupid questions, right? So when you say nothing that comes in a package and then you say eat three to four ounces of protein, I'm assuming that, that then do you mean we'll you said animal protein.
So how then do we choose like whole food, animal protein? How do we pick the best animal protein to eat at the grocery store that doesn't have all those preservatives. I have a hard time distinguishing. What's like just good marketing and what's actually better for me.
Sarah Marshall ND: Totally. And I know like it would be really gross to actually buy meat that isn't wrapped in plastic.
So like, there's going to be like some degree of packaging there, but one is you want it to basically look like the closest thing that might've actually come off of the animal, which might be a little gross, but the reality is. The more, it looks like that just as a slab of beef, then that's probably healthier.
So meat is a tricky one because pretty much in most grocery stores, the only, we only really have one option of a level. While we have two, we have decent USDA grade standard, traditional meat. And then you have less than that, then you have things that preservatives have been added to, or they've been turned into another product, right?
So mostly that's like, you're going to have chicken fish, lamb, pork beef, and then ground versions of that meat. Right. Different cuts. And then whether it's ground, and then there might be Cold cuts, lunch meats, processed bacon. You know, there'll be like little Smokies. They're probably gonna kill me that I actually called out a brand name, but whatever.
You know, there'll be meats that have already been either cooked in some way or preserved in some way. So that bottom level, I, I say, take all of those out. If you're really interested in resetting your body. Now, there are some versions of salami and bacon and sausages that I do find work for people.
Once you get kind of used to reading labels and knowing about different additives and how different processing is but for most starting standpoint, I just set all of the process meats aside, which includes all deli meats, which is a little tricky, because a lot of deli meats can be a convenient way to add protein, to like, you know, your daily lunches and things like that. But actually on the whole 30, they challenge you to read the ingredients on everything. And I have rarely confined a deli meat that doesn't still have sugar added because that's part of how they make it taste good. And it's part of how they preserve it as with some sort of like dextrose or sucrose or something.
So there's almost always something in that. But then for me, the, the real best answer is to get... There's some organic meats are available and some grass fed meats are available. And then this depends on which animals. So like free range chickens, grass fed beef. You're not really going to find free range pork. Pork is actually one of the harder meets for me to locate the healthiest version. And I pretty much have to go to farmers to get it. And it's not cheap. Now. None of the higher level needs are. And. Where I've kind of gone with my thinking about that is I eat less of it and I eat higher quality or more humanely raised animals.
So personally, I have a farmer in Idaho and I order a side of beef once a year, and I get 120 pounds of beef all at once. And then I eat that. And nothing else. And you can, there's a website called eatwild.com and you can go on there and farmers will list themselves. There's a map, actually, you can pick your state, you can pick your city.
And farmers will say like, here's what I have available. And here's how to get it from me either. I, some of them are commercially operating. You can get it from them all the time. Some of them you have to only you can order, but then they're going to only do slaughters on a particular schedule. So you like would get, 10 chickens all at once. And I do have a freezer downstairs. Now that's a whole nother level of commitment, but it does make a difference. So like sourcing, you know, I get my fish from a fishing cooperative in Bristol Bay, Alaska, and there's several different kinds of like buying programs where the fishermen are now starting to work directly with customers, which helps them cut out the middleman and also helps them put their money into environmental sustainable fishing line, caught fish, things like that.
But at the standard grocery store, You might have the option for grassfed. And I would always do that if you have the option and then you might have the option for free range or potentially organic, I would love to say that that's like the best solution. And unfortunately, in our world right now, organic raised animals are still not that humanely raised.
They can be semi feedlot. They're just eating organic feed instead of non-organic feed. Now, the only good news about this, not only, one of the good news is standard feedlots are crowded conditions that are kind of like, you know, you have animals that have low levels of nutrition. And so they put a lot of antibiotics into those animals among other things.
Like, I don't know if this statistic still holds up today, but 10 years ago, 80% of all of the antibiotics produced in the United States were fed to ant farm animals, not to human. So that's just keeping them alive because their conditions are so poor and their diet is like, there's a whole thing about cows are not supposed to eat corn.
They really supposed to eat grass. And if they eat corn, then they're, you know, we know about the microbiome. Will cows have a microbiome? They have four stomachs. They have a huge microbiome. Cows microbiome gets off. They get e-coli, they have all kinds of disease issues, so they're on antibiotics all the time.
And PS antibiotics make them grow faster and get fatter quicker. So that's the other thing it does to humans too. So I don't, but it's still like, it's unfortunate we don't have like the, you know, so what can you do around meat industry in particular at a standard grocery store? It's still worth it in my opinion, to choose organic, even though it's not, I will not standing here saying that it's the best solution.
And I do that both politically and for a health reason, because I do believe in voting with your dollar. I do believe that if we make certain buyers choices, that'll push the demand in new directions. I mean, I remember there was never organic at Walmart, but now Walmart has a huge organic section and that happened because we chose it because people were willing to do it.
And so it's also kind of like the electric car is electric car solution to all of our, you know, issues in climate control. No, not at all, but if we go that direction, we make those purchasing options. It pushes the market. It starts to create innovation. That's my belief. That's where I stand with it. And then if you're really invested by a freezer and shake the hand of your farmer and you'll get the best quality meat that way.
Kendra Vicken: That's awesome. And so kind of along that line is how much and how frequently it should we be eating? I feel like that's one of the harder things to navigate when you're first learning about getting healthy is that there's so many conflicting pieces of advice. I have heard that you should do intermittent fasting and only eat for 12 hours of the day and then not eat at all for the other 12 hours of the day.
And then I've also heard that you should be eating tiny meals, like all day long thinking, you know, keep your metabolism up. And I, so like what the heck do we make of that? What is the actual, like, not necessarily trendy, but what's the actual best way to have meals and to eat throughout the day?
Sarah Marshall ND: It depends.
Honestly. And so this is where, like, if we're willing to take the fads out of it, there's solid good evidence that intermittent fasting makes a real difference in diabetes because diabetes… Now this is a person already with diabetes, not prevention of diabetes. Those are two different physiologic states, but if you already have diabetes, your cells are resistant to insulin. The insulin is the hormone that makes all the blood sugar go from the blood, into the tissues to be used by your body where it needs to be. And basically what's happened is you get insulin resistance and that sort of like, I'm going to put it this way. It's like the telemarketer, the marketer that comes to your door and they just knock on your door and they come every day and they knock at your door and they come every day and they knock the door. You eventually stop asking! You just like, don't answer the door anymore. That's what's been happening is there's been so much blood sugar and so much insulin in the system that the cells finally are like enough already. But ironically, they're starving on the inside, the blood sugar, the blood, sorry, the sugar stays in the blood and isn't getting into the tissues where it's needed.
So if you only eat two meals a day in a short window, and you have 16 hours without food or without sugar exposing the cells, you give those cells a chance to be like, And then they aren't as prone to being insulin resistant, their insulin sensitivity actually goes up. That's valid. That's a real thing.
But then you have people on the other end of the spectrum who are in a different kind of like, I kind of put diseases into two categories or health conditions cause not everybody has a disease. Where there's conditions of excess and there's conditions of depletion. And you can even have somebody who, yeah, they might be overweight, but they're really in a condition of depletion.
Their energy is really low. They have insomnia, they're exhausted all the time. Their body just isn't getting enough fuel. That is a person who I'm going to say. They need to eat every two hours. And it's specifically to help restore the functioning of a different set of hormones, which comes from the adrenal glands.
And the adrenals are dealing with our fight or flight survival mechanisms. And when we've dealt with PTSD, when we've had long-term periods of stress, when we've gone through a horrific divorce for years and years and years, when we've got caretaker syndrome, we've been taking care of a parent or a child, and we're just depleted.
Don't do intermittent fasting without consultation of a medical doctor, like working with a medical doctor, if they assess you and they say, this is the best thing for you. Great. Do it. Like, I don't know all the new ins and outs of each individual person, but on a general standpoint, When I have somebody who's really dealing with, I'm exhausted, I'm fatigued.
I'm depleted. I can't remember the last time I had a day off and more likely to end up with someone who's in a state of adrenal insufficiency or cortisol imbalance, and they need to be nourishing and feeding the fuel of their body on a regular basis because their energy systems aren't able to do it on their own right now. It won't be forever. It'll be a period of time that they eat that way. The other thing that I think confuses this is we have people who are athletes communicating information about how they operate to people who are not athletes. And that's the thing I tell yourself the truth about, are you taking your nutritional advice from a bodybuilder?
That's fine if you're a bodybuilder, but if you're not, that may not be the best source of advice. Right? So there are bodybuilders who do eat. 6,000 calories a day and it works for what they're up to their physiology, the amount that they train and how they've conditioned their body to get to that position. And they do it by eating six small meals throughout the day and they eat nothing but broccoli, rice, and chicken, and you know, like right there.
Kendra Vicken: Whereas if I ate 6,000 pounds sitting at my computer all day for work, that would not have the same results. Nope.
Sarah Marshall ND: You know, Michael Phelps was eating 10,000 calories a day when he was training for the Olympics.
He was also in water six hours a day, and water will pull heat out of our body really quickly. And so most of the reason why we even need any excess calories at all is to stay warm. When I lived in Arizona, I like stopped eating because my body was 98 degrees on the inside and the air was 98 degrees on the outside.
And I was like, I don't need to eat anything because I'm just already the right temperature all the time. And so it was actually hard to get myself to eat compared to when I was in Montana, I was wolfing down sausage and bacon and steaks and you know, extra butter on everything and it was burning through it.
And I lost weight when I was up there. So there's all these other factors like. Are you in a state of excess or are you in a state of deficiency? What is your athletic goals and what is your athletic ability right now? Like all of those things kind of cater into which one, and I'm going to say this cause we were like, okay, great. Now what do I do? Right. Generally speaking, all diets work, all of them. Do you know the number one way to make a diet work?
Kendra Vicken: stick to it?
Sarah Marshall ND: keep doing it. And it's really about structure. Like, you know, we interviewed Cesar Contreraz who lost 80 pounds. I didn't even ask him what diet he did, but I guarantee he picked something and he stuck to it. And that's what had it work. And so should you do keto, should you not do keto? Should you do intermittent fasting? Should you not do intermittent fasting is paleo for you or is a vegan, raw diet or a juice cleanse, like that's where listening to yourself and your heart and your body and what sounds right. And what feels good. And being honest with ourselves, where are triggers and things are like, I never, ever, ever thought I would do a 30 day vegan cleanse, but I did. And it was all raw, mostly juiced vegetables for 30 days with a little bit of seeds. And it was an awesome experience. And I didn't lose any weight at all.
Cause it's not what my physiology needs. You know, it was cleansing, it was healthy for me, but it wasn't shifting in that way. My body does the best when I have animal protein and vegetables as a balance. And I need a certain amount of fats in my diet and that's my physiology, but other people, they take the fat out and they mostly eat a little bit of protein and a lot of vegetables and all of these things lined back up.
Kendra Vicken: Right, well then there's, you know, there's so many extremes there, right? I mean, there's vegan diet and then there's a keto diet, and those are pretty much opposite things, but I know people who feel healthy and successful in both of those diets
Sarah Marshall ND: and I'm actually gonna pull in from Dallas Hartwig actually he wrote a book. I have it sitting on my desk. I'm looking for it at the four seasons solution and what I love about this project is that he talked about how our physiology shifts with the seasons. And that's something that you actually, when you start digging into these diets and you read about a lot of them, yes stick with it to reach your goal, but there is a natural shifting and changing to what your body wants at any given time. So it's another thing that trips people up sometimes. So like Oh, gosh, what's the author of Bulletproof diet. I've lost his name all of a sudden, but I'll think of it in just a second.
But I remember reading one of the more recent books in the Bulletproof series and he recommends, you know, Bulletproof is practically keto, if not full keto and it's a very strict paleo diet, but then he takes a break and goes all vegan for like either a week or six weeks, depending on what you're doing.
And he intentionally brings in this pulsing of a cleanse and letting your body release things and shifting the physiology in Tim Ferriss's four-hour body, which came out forever ago, but it's still a great basis for this conversation of like how to get healthy, because he basically talks about the biggies sex, sleep, energy, fitness, like that's what we want.
We want great sex. We want good restful sleep. We want to have good energy. We want to look good. And he nailed it in that book. And he talked about six days on one day off. And there's even some research that says, if you stay on a restricted, you know, rigid diet, you could potentially put yourself into an intentional hypothyroid state where your metabolism starts ramping down.
Now it's not really anything you're going to see in your blood work per se. But if your body thinks it's starving, it's going to start compensating for that. And it's not, you're not going to get the same results. So pulsing things on a certain schedule can make a difference. What I like about what Dallas Hartwig said in the four season solution is, something that just resonates more with me, which is staying in tune with nature. So in the summer time, More fruits, higher carbohydrates. You're also active longer days. You're outputting more energy. You're more social, you're more wanting to be out in the world. And then we naturally have harvest time in the fall and what's available in the fall potatoes and pumpkins and squash and all these starchy vegetables, because we're supposed to gain weight in the fall so that we may get through the winter.
And so, so many of us get so mad when we put on, the idea is to take it back off of the spring, but we put on five or six pounds in the fall. It could actually be part of your natural bio rhythm, except that we don't run out of food in the winter. That's the only difference because our grocery stores are always stocked, but then you go into like meats and stews and heartier foods, and then what's available in the springtime greens, tons and tons and tons of greens, all the green shoots in the, you know, Baby kale and the dandelion greens and all of the tops of the carrots and the tops of everything.
And so when to do a good, deep vegan cleanse, the spring is a great time to do it. And then what's interesting is you look, those foods up bitter greens are really good for the kidney and the liver, which are very detoxifying, which is like the perfect time to do that kind of a detox. So that aspect also is something that really resonates with me of like, well, how come all these diets work?
Well, keto in the winter and vegan in the spring and, you know, paleo Navarro in the summer. And it's like, you can kind of see it through that lens. That's what I really loved about what he created.
Kendra Vicken: That's awesome. Also, I think I found Dave Asprey.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yes!I knew that I just had a moment.
Kendra Vicken: No, sometimes we need our memory jogged.
So kind of along the, along the same line as food for what's confusing for me, you know, being the representative for the people who are not as involved in this as you Vitamins. I'm interested in vitamins and supplements. I feel like there's a lot of good marketing, you know, I, I see the sugar bear hair one all the time.
I see, you know, like detox, diet, teas, you know, things like this are all over social media. How do we determine what we actually should be supplementing our diet with how do we determine if we should or should not be on a vitamin? Should everyone be on a multivitamin? How, how do we navigate that kind of stuff?
Sarah Marshall ND: This is the best, worst question ever, Kendra. So it's complicated. I can give you my opinion, really, which is what all I got. I think if we tell ourselves the truth about the state of farming and if you know at all, and I'll tell you, now we have stopped farming top soil a long time ago. So before fertilizers were really a thing, which really was post-World war II and didn't completely take hold until the 1970s.
You couldn't grow food without healthy nutrient dense soil, it wouldn't grow. And then the crops would be incredibly weak. Just like if we were nutrient deficient, our immune systems would be weak. We would be susceptible to disease. Same thing happens with plants. So up until very recently, All of human agrarian history was dependent on healthy nutrient dense soil to produce any food at all.
We added manure. We added things in, we rotated crops. We had, we knew that we could get more food from an acre of soil if we had multiple crops on the same ground than only one single plant type, like we do now in monocultures. So, one of the downstream effects of this is a tomato is not a tomato, like it used to be.
And a pepper is not a pepper and many people aren't even eating vegetables. So you've got processed food. You've got foods that are inflammatory, which are actually taking nutrition out of your body in order to be dealt with, you've got foods that are removing things from your gut microbiome in order to actually be even able to pass through your digestive track.
So some of your food, it might be giving you calories, but it's literally sucking nutrition out of your body as you eat it. And then in addition to that, even if you do eat a relatively balanced diet and you've done the whole foods thing, we just don't have particularly the minerals. So you asked about vitamins cause that's what we often think about. We kind of put them all in one category, but I'm going to tease it apart that you have different categories of things. So my opinion is vitamins are important and if you eat a whole foods based diet, you're going to get a lot of them. But minerals are the most critical.
So if you're going to prioritize something, prioritize mineral supplementation. Now I'm not talking about calcium. And that's another thing we're like the only mineral we ever talk about is calcium. Everyone's like, ah, calcium prevents osteoporosis. Kinda, the research is a little weak on that. And actually there's been a lot that shown that a lot of the calcium on the market, and this is where it gets tricky. Like, I can definitely give you what my top recommended vitamins and supplements are, and I will for just general overall health. But then the hard part is because this industry is not well-regulated, it takes some wit it takes some knowledge and some understanding to be able to decipher what's worth spending your money on, and what's not, what's more marketing and what's actually more useful.
And to be able to tell the difference between the different companies, unfortunately, that's still just the case. So one of the first things I'd say is find somebody in your life who loves this stuff and they research it and they want to tell you all about it and ask them because they'll help you sort it out.
But my top favorite things that I do think support people overall is a B-complex. And B complexes are essential for your energy level. They prevent anemia, you know, B12 does all the other BS are integral in your literal energy production of like how you break down food and get bodily energy. They're also integral for DNA transcription.
So the efficiency of your body to be able to remake what it needs to, which is also cancer, preventing there's all kinds of things. So B vitamins are at the top of my list and I do recommend a complex. Next to that is magnesium. Now most of my new clients I put them all in a multi-mineral to begin with because minerals are the main co-factors for enzymes in your body, doing the things it needs to do, and generally doing a multivitamin isn't my favorite thing to do, but doing a multi-mineral is so multi minerals can actually start to give you a base of even boron and molybdenum and things you've never even thought you needed, but you actually do need a little bit of it. But then after a couple of months on a multi mineral, I almost always just leave people on a magnesium supplement.
And then this is where a little chemistry knowledge starts to kick in because there are mineral supplements on the market that, you know, there are companies that the goal is to make the cheapest version of the thing that they can. So there's inorganic minerals and there's organic bioavailable minerals.
So there's minerals that are literally made out of rocks. Those are not so absorbable. And then there's ones that are made from more food based substances. And so you'll see minerals that have any kind of, and I know this is going to get a little technical, but an amino acid key late to it. So magnesium glycinate, magnesium, citrate, magnesium malate.
Those are some of my favorite ones. And combinations when in doubt, I'll do like a tri mag that has all three of the most common key late, so that you're getting different things. Now they actually do absorb differently. And for people who have stomach sensitivity to magnesium, where it causes diarrhea or loose stools, magnesium, malate, or glycinate tend to be the most absorbable.
So you don't get that GI effect. So B vitamins, magnesium or minerals; probiotics. And this is another one where there's been a lot of research recently that's kind of gone back and forth with probiotics are really useful, you know, worth it or not. Here's my thing with probiotics. There is a case to say that for some people taking them makes no difference, but there's also a lot, lot, lot, lke if you have IBS, if you deal with any sort of diarrhea, if you have chronic constipation, which is like a whole ton of people in the population that it shows it is of good benefit. So is there a chance that you're taking a probiotic and it's doing nothing? Yes. But it's sort of like, it's either doing nothing or it's doing a lot of good things.
And if you're paying attention to your body, usually you can tell in a couple of months that like, Oh my gosh, I actually feel way more regular. And I can't tell you the number of people. I know we're going to talk about poop, but just let me do it. I can't tell you the number of people who they tell me how normal and regular their bowel movements are.
And then I have them do a GI transit test. This isn't foolproof, but it's a pretty good at home way of testing how your transit time is. Ttake seven capsules of charcoal and then wait for the black stool to come out. So what happens in many people is it's two or three days later, but they're pooping every day.
So their experience is I'm regular, but what they don't know is it's taking two to three times longer than it's supposed to, for food to move all the way through their system. That is going to be a source of toxicity and a source of inflammation because the longer, the transit time, the more possibility that toxins or parts of the body's trying to get rid of things are there to get reabsorbed.
So what's a good transit time, about 18 to 24 hours. So, you know, something should basically go into your mouth. It takes several hours to get all the way through your stomach and into your lower digestion. And then it should take another, like 10 to 12 hours to get through your colon. And so that's also something that surprises people. They often think like they eat and poop and that, that was all the same thing… No, that was probably three meals ago. So there is a little bit of a lag time there.
Kendra Vicken: Which this is, and maybe this is kind of a joke, I don't know, but this makes me think about like when you eat corn... And then like how quickly is that kind of the same idea?
Right? Like the similar in the corn husk in my poop the next day, right?
Sarah Marshall ND: Is that probably a decent transit time? The only caveat is that corn can be inflammatory. So, if you have any inflammation, it'll Quicken your transit time. So it'll be a false positive. That's why charcoal's a better indicator because it's inert, it's neutral and it's just, it'll just stay together. So that's the only problem with using corn, but otherwise you're on the right track.
Kendra Vicken: Now here's a question too about like that idea of just going and taking seven capsules of charcoal, because I had heard once and like, please correct me if this is wrong, which is why I'm bringing it up that you shouldn't take a lot of charcoal if you're on medication, because it can absorb the medication. Stomach gets to, or something like that...
Sarah Marshall ND: I wouldn’t take the charcoal with your medication or even other supplements because they'll stick to the charcoal and not get absorbed by your body. So if this were something that you wanted to do, you'd want to time it away from other medications. I should put in the show notes, how much time that should be if it's like three or four hours is what my brain is telling me that three or four hours should be sufficient because at that point, the medication's gone through your stomach and is already getting absorbed by your liver and small intestine and then anything you did after that would be safe.
Kendra Vicken: Okay. That's great clarification for if someone wants to go home and try it.
Sarah Marshall ND: No, that's, I'm really glad you brought that up. So we talked about B-vitamins magnesium probiotics, and then my next one is fish oil or some sort of an Omega product. I am, if you are an animal eater, I'm a big proponent of fish oil, and this is one where a lot of people will do this and then, you know, I may betray something here, but I'm just gonna say it anyways, which is like, You always need to consult a physician when you're, we're adding anything to your diet, especially, or supplements because of interactions with medications and things like that. Now these are on my list because most of these are pretty innocuous in the sense that there's not a lot of cross-reactivity, you know, there is a thing about if you're on thyroid medication and you take minerals at the same time, it binds with a thyroid medication.
So you want to take thyroid medication on at least an hour or two away from all food and all medic all other supplements in general. Most people already know that they're taking that medication. So there are some things to be in consideration of. And with fish oil, there is a possibility, some say about it, overthinking your blood.
Now I can't like point to the research per se, that proves otherwise. But my general understanding from my naturopathic community is that that is really hard to do. Like you would have to eat so much fish oil. You're like growing gills for that to start to be a problem where you get into a problem of like excessive bleeding before surgeries and things like that.
And. If you're on a blood center already as a medication, then you've got to consult your doctor before you do this. But some of my clients have actually been able to mitigate how much medication they've needed of their blood thinner by balancing it out with fish oil and with a few other things. But then they have to be very consistent about it.
You can't skip days, you can't do it sometimes. And not other times you've got to be just as consistent as you were about your medication. So that's my caveat there, but in general, Fish oil is so good for our brains, our memory, our ability to focus for hormone balance, for being heart-healthy for being anti-inflammatory, it's just really critical and even better than a fish oil supplement is reducing the amount of Omega sixes in your body, which is a arachidonic acid, which is the oil that comes from plant oils, processed food, fried food, like the whole world of fast food. So ultimately you want a one-to-one ratio of Omega six to Omega three in your body. Almost none of us have that. I work really hard at it, and I don't have that. It's hard to do. If you can get to a one to four, that's at least considered optimal health. Most of us are walking around with one to 10, one to 12, and that's where all the inflammation in our body is coming from.
So. There's a little bit of taking a lot of fish oil to kill off the inflammation is like trying to spit in the ocean and change the tides. You really do have to deal with the source of the inflammation, but in addition to that, it's incredibly helpful for hormones, for brain health, for all that kind of stuff.
And then my last one on my list of the top five is vitamin D and I feel like we've talked a lot about vitamin D during the COVID era. So I don't know that I need to beat that drum too hard. But we're all predominantly vitamin D deficient. It actually does show that vitamin D supplementation does make a difference in your health, because that was always my question.
I'm like, well, we're supposed to be outside and we're just taking the supplement instead. Does that even make a difference? Does that change anything? It does. It does help your immune system. Vitamin D is very antifungal. It can be antiviral. It's supportive of your immune system, your eye health, your skin health, so many things.
So I do also have that one on my list of top five. Now I've already said a lot, but I do want to just kind of point to what you're talking about, which is like, how do you know what to supplement and where to go with it? And, you know, just like if you were going to take a medication, you'd probably want to read about it.
So you'd want to get some good, solid information. And there are loads of stuff on the internet, which comes with loads of misunder information, but there's also really good information. I do tend to follow Chris Kresser, Dr. Axe, those are two of my favorite blogger doctors who have really solid information.
Dr. Mercola is old school. He was one of the first nutritional bloggers, but his information is still pretty rock solid, and he's actually really willing to call stuff out, kind of even more on the edge of, of being controversial, which I really love that he's willing to speak to that. And then my brain is going to do the thing again, I read his blog every day, of the Cleveland clinic, he's a medical doctor. He's gotten way into integrative medicine. We'll make sure his name is in the show notes. So those are some people that are very credible, that you can read, their information, can read their blogs. You can start to get an idea. There is a book called, “Prescriptions of Nutritional Healing” that two medical doctors created.
I don't know how many, probably 20 years ago now or more, and they publish updated versions of it. I used this book in my board exams in medicine. Like it's solid. It's a lot of information, but it's a good place. And you can go through like literally disease by disease. You can look up gout, you can look up arthritis, you can look up, you know, adrenal fatigue, you can look up these things and it's all research backed.
They did an incredibly job citing it. It's it's a great place to start in, if you're really wanting to get even deeper and to be able to have a resource for your family you know, then there's the world of herbs and then there's the world of homeopathy and we would need at least three or four more podcasts for that.
Now the good news is, and I'm going to put this little dot in now, is one of the things that's come out of this podcast is recognizing there's a lot more, I want to share and teach. So over 2021 and into 2022, I'm going to be producing some courses and we're going to be able to get into some of this stuff and even more detailed to help sort these things out about where do I start and what do I do and how to figure these things out with groups of people in some online virtual courses. And then I hope, someday, in person workshops when we're able to do that again. So I will definitely be able to start to support people more in that genre when they're not going to just come be, you know, a private practice member in my, my business.
Kendra Vicken: And along that line, if anyone's listening to this in the car or somewhere else where they've been wanting to take in all this information, but unable to write it down, don't panic, I will put it all in the show notes on our website for you. This will probably be the most extensive show notes that I’ve ever done...
We'll make sure to list there for you guys. Sarah's top list of her top recommended vitamins and minerals, as well as the books and the blogs she has mentioned. So all of those resources will be there for you and there you can sign up for the newsletter as well, which I highly recommend you would do, because then you'll be one of the first people to know when her courses go live about these general health issues.
Sarah Marshall ND: And that's Mark Hyman MD from the Cleveland clinic. And he's just been really extraordinary at bridging the gap between conventional and integrative medicine, which I really appreciate. I sometimes disagree with him, but I think that's awesome, you know, is like, I'm glad that there's discourse and we're, we're looking at it. We're figuring stuff out. So yeah, we'll have all that in the information.
Kendra Vicken: Well, let's wrap up with just one more question. If there was one thing that you would want everyone to know or to do to be healthy, what is it?
Sarah Marshall ND: Sleep. So it's, I think this is a moving target. I think if you asked, you know, in the 1960s, it'd be one answer and the 1990s would be another answer, but with where we are now and the way our lives are, there's this badge of honor that we can make it through life on four to five hours of sleep, or I'm fine with six hours and yet like, okay, I'm totally, if, if this client hears this, I am totally picking on you in the best possible way and thank you for being an example for all of these people out here, listening. But I had a client recently tell me she's totally great on six to seven hours of sleep every night. Like she, she totally works for her, but she just has a really hard time getting out of bed in the morning. Cause she's so fatigued. And it's like, I get it. Now. I also know that there was like a period of time where you will, you know, you did feel good on six to seven hours.
And then now there's this fatigue and they're not always directly related, but very simple answer is when you're thirsty, what should you do? And when you're hungry, what should you do? And when you're tired, what should you do? Not drink caffeine, not go to the gym, not collect $200. Like if you're fatigued for any reason, even if the reason you're fatigued is because you have a disease or the reason you're fatigued is because you're going through menopause or the reason you're fatigued is because of some other circumstance.
Do you know what we do when we sleep? We heal! Your body is trying to make you stop so it can freaking get its job done and heal, and then you'll be better. And when you're better, guess what? You'll automatically sleep, the amount that you actually need with no alarm. So here's the test and this will take something for people to organize their lives this way.
But if people could go to, if you could go to bed and actually be prepared to go to sleep at 10 o'clock and not wake up with an alarm for seven days, then tell me. Tell me what the average was. And it requires actually going to bed at a reasonable time in the evening, because if you go to bed later, it will throw off your cortisol levels and things can change in your hormones.
So you actually want to hit that first window. It's also my favorite when people are like, well, I'm really tired when I get home from work at like seven or eight o'clock at night, I'm like exhausted. Like I go to sleep, but I can't go to sleep at eight o'clock. Like, I'm not. You know, six year old kid, like I'm an adult, I'm going to stay up.
So I pushed through that and then I'm so wired. I can't fall asleep till one o'clock in the morning.
Kendra Vicken: Oh, no, it sounds like you're talking about me.
Sarah Marshall ND: It happens all the time. So that's a clue. That's a hint that your body actually is giving you the proper signal at the proper time. And it's trying to get you to go to sleep, but we just think that's just insane. And I get it. Like one of the things I also say in my practice all the time is. All people dealing with a health issue, turned into little kids.
We just do. I don't want to take all these pills. I don't want to go to bed early. I don't want to drink all this water. It's awesome. I love it. I really do. Actually. It's totally makes me laugh and I have a 70 year old person in my practice who's like whining, like they're five. But I get it because like, I mean, I had that too.
I was the youngest in my family and the whole idea of going to bed early was a punishment. It was like all the fun stuff happened after I went to sleep and I was the little one. And so I had to go to bed early and then they had all the fun and I was sleeping and I hated missing out. So it took me a long time to realize that as an adult, I get to do whatever I want and what I want is to feel good and to have energy.
And so I've, I think we have talked about this on other podcasts, but I'm going to say it again, which is, I often prescribe my new clients somewhere between four and nine days of bedrest. Like uninterrupted, no work, no projects, no nothing. They have to sit still and do as little as possible. Now they'll ask me like, well, what am I going to do?
I'm going to get bored. Not one person ever has told me they were bored. Mostly they're shocked by the fact that they sleep around 12 to 14 hours the first couple of nights, but then they don't. Then there's like this natural reset that starts to happen. And then their body gets into this rhythm. And some people sleep the entire week, depending on how exhausted they've been.
But some people will actually say like the first couple of days I was blown away. I slept til 11 o'clock in the morning. I have not done that in years because they gave themselves the full permission. There wasn't even those thoughts saying you're going to have to do this in the morning, which will wake you up earlier.
So that would be my number one thing for where we are right now is sleep and giving yourself time to rest and actually allowing your brain to slow down and your body to do deep healing. And guess what? You lose weight when you actually have slept enough. So how cool would that be? If you could just like drop 10 pounds because you're sleeping more.
Kendra Vicken: That sounds like a dream to me. Yeah. That's that's interesting. I think that that's a great note to leave off on. I feel like this has been an awesome overview and an awesome entry point or reminder for people who have already been trying to do this of ways to seek health. And so just as a reminder to everybody, you can find all the details for this episode on SarahMarshallND.com/podcast, and I think that's all I have.
Do you have anything else, Sarah?
Sarah Marshall ND: No, this was awesome. And I, you know, we've, we've kind of shied away from the podcast being a bunch of how tos, but I also realize there's a point where it's like, okay, I'm inspired now, what do I do. So I'm glad we did this. And you know, we look forward to hearing from everybody so we can get more of what you want this to… in what topics do you want us to cover? What places you want us to go. And I've even been kicking around the idea of creating some Q and A sessions where like, we would literally just put out a zoom meeting, notice on the podcast or on the website. And then, you know, in the newsletters, you'd be able to get it.
And it'd be like, you know, office hours with Dr. Marshall and then be able to use that as helping other people and sharing that information and finding out what people's questions are so that, you know, more and more people can get the information they're looking for. So. That's what we're here to do.
Kendra Vicken: That sounds great. Well, it's been an amazing season and I look forward to season four
Sarah Marshall ND: four. Yup. It's going to be awesome. Thanks Kendra.
Kendra Vicken: Bye Sarah.
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Sarah Marshall ND: A super special, thank you to our producer, Kendra Vicken for always pulling for our greatness. Are you ready to take on your own health? I'm now accepting new clients for 2021. Contact me at SarahMarshallND.com or Instagram @SarahMarshallND. For a full transcript and all the many resources from today's show visit SarahMarshallND.com/ podcast.
Send us your questions as well. Anything that we missed or you're unclear about in this episode. Thank you for listening. Support and spread the word by leaving us a review on your favorite platform so we can heal our world. Thank you to our music composer, Roddy Nikpour. This is Dr. Sarah Marshall. We'll see you in season four.