Our Body's Wisdom Giving Birth: Natural Childbirth, Healthy Parenting and Trusting Your Intuition with Dr. Abrianne Goss, ND
On today's episode, Dr. Abrianne Goss shares with us about natural childbirth, healthy parenting and the power of trusting your intuition and body's wisdom in birthing life.
Referenced in the Show:
Abrianne’s Bio:
Dr. Abrianne Goss is a Board licensed Naturopathic Physician and has been practicing in Oregon for over 10 years. She completed her medical schooling at National University of Natural Medicine, where she studied the human body, the healing power of nature, and food as medicine. She was trained in holistic therapies and standard medical practices.
Dr. Goss believes that health extends well beyond the physical body. “It is about living a wildly fulfilling and happy life”, Goss emphasizes. Many mothers struggle with finding the balance in family, career, and their own health.
Dr. Goss specializes in helping mothers restore their health using functional medicine, herbal therapies, nutrition, lifestyle, and the mind-body connection.
Listen To Your Body. 5 Steps to Intuitive Healing: http://doctorwilesgossnd.com/get-freebie/
Inspired Health Consultation:http://doctorwilesgossnd.com/get-freebie/
Full Transcript:
Sarah Marshall, ND: A note to our listeners. In this episode, Abrianne courageously shares about her experience with a second trimester miscarriage. The story may bring up strong emotions for you. As always, please be compassionate and kind with yourself.
Welcome to HEAL. On today's episode, Dr. Abrianne Goss shares with us about natural childbirth, healthy parenting and the power of trusting your intuition and body's wisdom in birthing life. I'm your host, Dr. Sarah Marshall.
Abrianne Goss: Thanks for having me
Sarah Marshall, ND: On my God. Thanks for coming to do this.
Abrianne Goss: Yeah, yeah.
I was a little scared. I got to say
Sarah Marshall, ND: We're in the right ballpark, right? Yeah. Well, good. So let me just kind of set it up for you is...
Abrianne Goss: Okay. Great.
Sarah Marshall, ND: You know, this is the healing project and it's exactly that it's hopefully something that's going to spread the possibility of health and healing, the possibility of what it actually looks like. And also, I think that for the people so far who participated, they said that sharing their story has been really healing and cathartic for them too.
And you really have free reign to talk about whatever that brings up for you. But one, you know, as a fellow naturopathic physician and one of my classmates who I've known for 15 years now,
Abrianne Goss: Crazy.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And my former roommate (laughing) Oh my gosh, right? Back in the first year of med school, we were like deer in the headlights.
Abrianne Goss: I know!
Sarah Marshall, ND: I'm just really curious what your perspective is on: what does it mean to heal? Like what do you see in yourself? What do you see in your patients? What have you discovered in those 15 years plus whatever got you into med school in the first place? So that's kind of where I want to start.
Abrianne Goss: Okay, great. Great.
Well, first of all, thank you for picking me to share this experience with.
As healing goes, it's been a journey for myself and learning what that actually is, and going to med school, it was like I had several aha moments as far as like where physically, I wasn't well or had healing to do. And I, and I learned a lot about like tools that I need to, to physically heal, like at- my toolboxe's full.
And, I think the journey has been more afterwards and, and becoming a mom and like going through the entire process of, from like pregnancy to delivery, to having babies. And then actually like taking care of my three kids. That's been where the biggest healing has happened for me because I realized, and you know, I've, I've, I've known this in the back of my head and we've been taught this in a small portion in school, but, but that healing is so much more than the physical body. And, I think just going through the experience yourself, I think you, you really, learn that like the depths of it, you really get into the grime and, and dig down deep in. And so that part has been like the biggest, like aha moment for me as far as like really, I'm growing.
And I mean, just for example, like I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's when I was in med school,
Sarah Marshall, ND: and that's a thyroid disorder, thyroiditis, right? Yeah.
Abrianne Goss: And, So I treated it on a physical level and I actually had everything pretty much in balance before I had kids. Like, I felt like my antibodies were low. And my body, my gut and everything felt pretty good.
And then when I had babies, it sent my system into a stress response that basically negated every physical thing that I was doing for myself. So I think that part was, was like my biggest aha moment as far as realizing that I, I am not there yet. I have, I have some work to do. And so just like working on, like finding that rest point and, and being able to find like the calm inside of me has been my journey and I realized that I lived on a low grade level of stress and I didn't know that it called low grade. Like it became high when I had kids just because of the rush of, of life and being a naturopathic doctor. And so I think, I'm still going through it, but it has like, I have gotten a long way as far as like looking at like my emotions and looking at like, what causes me to even respond to stress like I do.
I feel like healing is constant and, and it's always changing, and life is going to bring you all sorts of things. And so it's a matter of being able to find balance in that, in that place. So, yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Well, I'm so glad you dove in. Cause that's one of the things that originally that, I mean, I've got a lot of mamas around me, but when I think of like, mom, it's you. And I just remember, we had just barely gotten out of school and I'm still trying to like sort out the practice and business and you're like, yeah, I'm pregnant.
I'm like, wow. Okay. We're going to hit the ground running. And then, you know, I don't remember exactly the number of years, but it was like Adele was bored and it was like, yeah, I'm pregnant again. And it was, yeah, I'm pregnant again. And I'm like, all right, Abrianne's going for it. You know? So like, how would you say, like, I mean, I think people conceptually can get, yeah, having kids brings you to a whole 'nother level, but like what's some on the court examples of how you had to kind of face a new reality when you had kids.
Abrianne Goss: Yeah. The first example is I just like the independence that I felt on my own was. Amazing. And I had been able to take care of myself really well in that place.
And I had learned that and then having a baby, I honestly like if I could go to the first emotion that I felt having a baby, it was like, like my life had been taken away from me. And so that's probably the biggest, like first thing that I had to like face was that all of a sudden, like, I didn't have a choice. I didn't have a choice when I wanted to exercise when I wanted to eat, when I wanted to sleep, like every everything was lost. And so it, it felt like a loss, a grieving process like that first baby. And, So I think the on the court example is like just like constantly being, being needed by someone (laughs) and it's changed over the years.
So my oldest Adele is 9. My second is 7. She'll be 8 next month. and then my youngest little guy is 5 and so they've gotten more independent. And then also, like, my responsibility has changed as far as taking care of care of them. So I get a little more sleep these days, which is nice, but, yeah.
Yeah, just, just it's, it's a lot of, of giving of yourself and yeah, that finding that balance,
Sarah Marshall, ND: what I know of Hashimoto's and thyroid conditions is how much. A lot of that journey for people is discovering how much they aren't living their own truth and they're giving their life away for others. Like that's one of the themes that comes up a lot energetically around thyroid in my practice is thyroid is all about speaking your truth and living your kind of heart's desire. And if you tend to live life for other people to fulfill their expectations, to try and look good in their eyes, that's sometimes the themes that I see in people that come in. So here's this like. Huge opportunity. Not once, not twice, but three times over plus your husband and your family, you know, you're one of four, right? You've got three sisters, you know, all of that. So I can really get how...
Abrianne Goss: I mean, that's what it was. Like you explained it, you couldn't explain it any better. It was like me learning how I actually take care of myself no matter what, knowing that I am only as good as I am nourished, you know?
And so I can't be for my family, I can't be for my kids, I can't be for my husband, for anyone. And, and you're right. I was booked prior to having kids. I was, it wasn't in my face, but I was giving it all away.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah.
Abrianne Goss: So that's a huge lesson that I'm still working on, but I have grown so much and using my voice and like that, I think that's like being a mom.
You either get sucked into it and you become a victim to it, or you can learn to like change and grow. And that part has helped me to speak my truth and to ask for what I need. And, and it being okay for me to set some reasonable boundaries around, you know, relationships and, and that kind of thing. So it's, it has been the biggest gift.
Yes.
Sarah Marshall, ND: So in the world of like, I don't know, tips, tricks or tools you've used, like what, for those soon-to-be parents, want-to-be parents, thinking-about-being parents, I already have six kids. What can you share that helps create that? Cause it's easy to be like, yeah, you need boundaries. And then they're like in between the soccer and the dance and the school projects and, you know, getting dinner on the table and running a business, like what could that, what has that actually been? What are some of the things that have been helpful for you?
Abrianne Goss: So, I would say that the couple of things that, that have really made a difference are just like having no-budge things. So like self-care, like exercising and more recently making time for my like prayer meditation time, because that, that it allows me to start the day out and stay more often than not, (laughs) Stay down here instead of uphere.
I mean, just like saying like to myself that this is not something I budge in and how do I create the space to make that happen? And sometimes even if I'm tired and even if, you know, I don't have the energy and, and the time is limited, like how do I keep those, those, sacred moments, how do I make them sacred in my life?
And, and so what I would say to other moms, or, or soon-to-be moms is like, it's okay, it's okay to value yourself. It's okay to make yourself a priority. And, and it is all of a sudden, very important that you cut out the time and you have to create the space for that.
And for a while, there is like having babies, like your space is in between whenever you can get the moment, you know. But just it's, it's all about consciously, like making an effort and I feel like that changes your world around you. And so what I would say is just do it, make yourself a priority. You are worth it.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. And this is for dads too, actually
Abrianne Goss: It's for dads!
Sarah Marshall, ND: I mean, it's just for all of us in that realm. Yeah. And I mean, I think something you just pointed to that's really important is when we honor and make that time sacred part of it too, is is that we have to honor it. If we say we're going to meditate at 8:00 AM , you got to do it. You got to show up. 'Cause if you don't hold it as sacred, the people around you won't hold it as sacred either.
So if they see, you say I'm going to meditate every morning and then sometimes you do, if you feel like it, sometimes you don't, then they are like, oh, well maybe she'll meditate. Maybe she won't. I can totally interrupt her. So like, I think that it's got to work from both sides where you hold that time as sacred, such that it shows up that like, no kidding, this isn't budge-able and you train the people around you to that reality too.
Abrianne Goss: Right. So true. So true. And you're right. And they weren't people around me weren't used to seeing me in that light either. So that was a change. That was a big change. And you know, it will make people in your life go, wait, what? No, go back the way you were, you know, you'll see, you'll see that around you. We like you where you were at. And so it's just a matter of stepping forward and doing it. And then, the other thought that came to my mind with that is, the piece of your mind that you talked about that wants to like talk you out of things and not consistently do it even. I mean, you can come up with all sorts of excuses, but that's the one thing I, have been listening to Dr. Joe Dispenza who teaches people, meditation. And here lately. And what he said is that just. You can mean that your body, can physically be tired. You can be worn out. You can have all sorts of different excuses, but that the choice comes from not in the mind. It comes from just this honoring yourself and really aligning with your highest good.
And what you know is non- negotiable and just like going for it. And so you can be exhausted and you're going to be okay. Because in the end, I think like the benefit outweighs the, you know, not doing it. Right? It really does. So I just... that's been motivating for me.
Sarah Marshall, ND: You still want that extra 15 minutes of sleep or like, you know, that it's worth it to just do it anyways.
Abrianne Goss: Yep. That's exactly right. And that's, that's what I've had to do. It's been a mindset shift for sure.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Awesome. I want to shift gears a teeny bit because this is something now I haven't had children. I have four legged furry critters and lots of people's kids in my life who I love to spend time with. But one of the things that for me as an outsider has been really remarkable is your integrity and conviction to having natural pregnancies and natural childbirth and raising your kids from a natural standpoint.
And I think saying like, natural childbirth that doesn't really land for a lot of people. The, the scope of what that means. So would you share some about like things you did, things you didn't do and like why you went about it that way?
Abrianne Goss: Yeah, definitely. So, my first pregnancy just coming, I already knew I wanted to do my births naturally when I did have kids. My mom had my youngest sister at home and then going to naturopathic medical school kind of just supported that whole path. So I would say like mindset wise, I was like, okay, I don't know how this is going to be, but I'm doing it. and then, what I have learned over having children, is that our bodies are wise. They know exactly how to get through life.
It's just part of what we're we're born with. And so with pregnancy and like I trusted my body. I was able to get in a place where it's like women have been having babies for years. They've done it naturally well before we were doing it in hospitals. And so to get into that place of being able to know that my body, my body has got, this was like, number one, that was, that was, a must.
And then, I, you know, as far as when I was pregnant, I, you know, ate healthy and took supplements and, and. I used natural whenever possible. Like I tried to just support my body in the process. and then having a baby at home, I didn't know what to expect. I didn't even know how to plan, where to visualize exactly how I was going to go through that process. And so I had a long delivery. I, gosh, I want to say it took like. Six hours. It felt long. I waited to push until the last very minute till my midwife finally was like, it's time to push. And I think like what I did during delivery time, that that was so beneficial. And my mom did this and, and kind of taught me, but you go, you go with it, you go within and you just breathe and you just be one with your body.
And so my births all, like I was very quiet. I just centered myself through the pain. And what you realize is that you can get through so much and, and experience it all and get out the other side completely transformed. Like you're not the same person. And I feel like when we just allow the experiences to be and us to move through them, in that connected place, you're given gifts, like not that it's wrong or bad to do it any way that you deliver because to each their own.
But for me, like this was my path. Like I was going to do it naturally and I was going to trust my body and I was going to go within and have those babies. And, and so it was, it was really beautiful, beautiful experience with each of my kids. And then, you know, you know, more of what to expect with each child, but, afterwards, like, I didn't know that this was a normal response as far as like yeah, (laughs) what we're talking about on here, if this is okay. But
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yes!
Abrianne Goss: I mean, women bleed a lot afterwards and they go through, like swelling and inflammation and so much pain. And, and so I think that was just all a learning process. And so it was just like, okay. How do I support my body with, you know, I used like sitz baths where you put herbs in the water and sit in it. And, I ate a lot of foods with iron in 'em, meat. whenever I could get to rebuild my blood. And, and then as far as, I mean, vaccines and that kind of thing, I haven't vaccinated my kids and I probably won't in the end of it if I can get away with it. But, I'm trying to think other
Sarah Marshall, ND: One that stands out to me and maybe this is my memory is inaccurate, but did you do ultrasounds with your pregnancies?
Abrianne Goss: I didn't do ultrasounds with the first actually I didn't do ultrasounds with the first three, so I had three kids.
And then my husband and I got a surprise. Oh, I want to say Bly was four. My youngest guy was four. And so we got pregnant again. And then with that last one, I ended up having an ultrasound, but that was just to see if the baby was still alive and that ended up being a miscarriage.
So that's the only pregnancy that I did ultrasound with. Yeah. Yeah. So I just, I mean, I could have done it, I'm not opposed to ultrasound. I just, I just wanted to just go with what my intuition said and it said these babies are fine, so
Sarah Marshall, ND: Well, and that's the thing is like nothing we're saying here is advocating for a treatment.
It's really, I just love getting to share examples that there is such a thing as trusting our bodies and being that tuned in. And being aware in such a way that you really, you know, like you said, women have been giving birth on their own for. As far as I know hundreds of thousands of years. And, you know, and I know that there's places where, I mean, for me, it's like, I wouldn't be on this planet without conventional medicine.
Like I would never have made it out of my childhood without steroids and breeding treatments as I had asthma and some pretty severe infections when I was a kid. So like, it's not, it's just, it's just expanding. And I think that one of the things that happens a lot with my patients when I talk to them is there's somethings that they've never heard before and then they go, that like resonates like the truth in me, like it's comes from some ancient wise place, and this is an area that, I think a lot of people deal with feeling like they have to betray their intuition and they're not allowed to follow their instincts around pregnancy and birth. And that, that, you know, I just want to create a conversation that be possible.
And of course everything needs to be checked out with your physician and all of that. So I'm not, we're not advocating. It's like really just opening up those possibilities.
Abrianne Goss: Yeah. I do feel like so many, so many women feel disempowered in that whole realm. And I mean, I don't know if this is like I could go in and talk about my fourth baby, but yeah, there was, So I was, I was 16, 16 weeks along when I lost her.
So she was a girl. Her name was Brené and we went in and, and with the midwife, went in with the Doppler and tried to listen for a heartbeat and couldn't hear it. And that was about 14 weeks no, probably 15. And then we went in at 16 weeks with an ultrasound or within the next three days, I would say.
And they said, yep, there's, there's absolutely no heartbeat. And this baby stopped growing at 12 weeks.
And so it was, it was, it was a tough moment because I had had three healthy babies. I had personally never experienced a miscarriage in that. so I didn't, I didn't know what that would be like, and I know so many women have gone through this and especially after the fact I've learned like that there are piles and piles of women who go through this every day. And, the baby was still in me and from 12 weeks to 14, without my body's saying it needed to go. But with no heartbeat. And so, the doctors, the midwife sent me over, I ended up going in to the, gynecologists and, and getting appointed with her. And she, she said, you have, you have a couple of choices here, but, we need to get this baby out of you because it's just not safe at this point. And so she said, we can schedule you for a D&C, or, well, that was, that was pretty much the options. There's a couple other options, but that was the one that they recommended and they recommended it within the next three days.
And it was a Friday when we went into that appointment. And so I said, okay, I know that there are herbs that work for this. I said, I'm going to try that over the weekend and I will get back to you on Monday. And she said, okay. She said, here's my number. Call me. I trust that you're a naturopathic doctor and you probably know a little bit about this, but she's like, just call me.
And so, I went home and I had to do some processing. This is on all levels, but like, I sent my husband and my kids away. I went and collected all the herbs that I needed to go through with this. And, I stayed home and took a bath that first night when I realized this and just like the, the fear that was inside of me and just like bringing that up and allowing it to be there. And I teach a lot of my patients to like, feel the fear. Allow it to be there, feel it in your body, breathe and just let it be, just let it be. And then just now when you're ready, release it. And I did that to myself and I did it with every emotion that came to my mind in that moment, like fear of actually having this baby and delivering this baby and then, questioning myself and, and like what was wrong with my body.
And so I just, I just sat in the bath and I just went through everything that could come to my mind. And I began taking the herbs on that first day and I took them every two hours and I continuously did that and that next, so I took them one night the next morning, I bled a little bit. And then Saturday, I ended up having the baby at home and, you know, nobody tells you what this is going to be like, you seeing your baby come out.
Like, what do you do? What do you put in the toilet to catch the baby? Like all sorts of details that, are awful to talk about, but, but they're real and important. So many women go through that. And so, I had the baby and we, we caught her and my husband was with me and. My kids, like two of the girls came into the room when I was sitting on the toilet.
And then my little guy was still sleeping and, my husband washed the baby off and all my kids and my little guy woke up and came down and saw. And, you know, as awful as that experience might sound, it was also like one of the most healing, just being able to like go through it together as a family, my kids all were well old enough to be aware of, you know, that I was pregnant and so we ended up having our own little burial for the baby. Like we put her in a box and the kids painted or colored the box up and put little notes in there for her. And my husband and I wrote her a note and we had a little, little burial out on our property, probably aren't even supposed to do that. (laughs)
and, and just looking back on that experience, like, I'm just, I'm so grateful for it. Like. Not only did this baby, like on this end of it, looking back, I can see so many blessings from this baby, but also just like, I feel so much stronger, like having been through that process and getting to experience every single piece of it.
I know what the D&C they, they put you under and I didn't want to be asleep for that. And I know some women that might be the best option for you, you know, but for me personally, like I just wanted to be fully there. And it was, I'm feel so fortunate that I was able to have that baby, because my midwife even said 16 weeks.These are herbs. I don't know. I don't know if you have a chance of these things working. So it was a real, process of, of completely trusting and, and I told my body, I'm like, you've got this, like, let's do this. And I really feel like processing those emotions was such a huge piece to that baby. Finally, like my body finally saying, okay, like you can go now.
It's okay.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah.
Abrianne Goss: Cause I felt like she was there and, and alive, like up until like I did not, I think her presence was still there up until, you know, I delivered, so yeah, just a real, incredible moment. Yeah. In our lives. And the hardest, maybe the hardest that I've ever experienced. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Well, I almost am like, okay, that's it. I don't know where else to go, but I just, god, I just so appreciate your vulnerability and your honesty. And I think that sharing these kinds of stories is ... it's the way we heal collectively, you know, there's that not all of us have to go through every single thing for us to get it. We can have someone else gets it and in their getting it, we get it.
And so it's just a huge gift and I really appreciate it. An that's now the second time I've heard that story and both times it just like my whole body gets like almost a chill and because it's the real stuff, you know?
Abrianne Goss: Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Those are real moments.
Abrianne Goss: Yeah. Yeah. Pretty incredible. And yeah,
The last thing to add on that is that she gave me a gift because I completely, it completely changed the trajectory of where I was going in my practice as a doctor. And it really did this for my husband too. We really, really got connected with like, what is important here in life. And some of the things that weren't, we lost excitement about, we lost like the even the drive to, to go do them anymore. And it will, it's just interesting how it changes your priorities. It really, it really created a shift for me. Yep. So, and, and I just like to all the women that are out there, like, I think you've already hit home on this, but it really is about trusting your intuition because like, for yourself, for your kids, for what's best for your family, for whatever it is like, it is about trusting your intuition because you know, like moms are given such a beautiful gift of, of really being able to tap into that. And I think, society has us looking outward for answers. And I just want all of you to know that they are inside of you and men too. They're inside of every one of us and, and, Just just own it, own it. Really, really embrace the fact that the answers are inside. Nobody can give them to you. I mean, even talking to friends and getting advice, I would just say like, look at that.
And is it really like what you need in those moments? Like, I just know that when I'm quiet and when I listen the answer's right there in front of me and I can sometimes just feel it in my body. So, so I would just say, go there, practice that gift because we all have it. And the more that you practice it, the more that it will speak to you.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's something that. For some people, there's an intuition, they have intuition, but they don't know how to access it or it's been so dormant for so long.
Where we started this podcast with meditation is one of the ways it's like my experience with my own intuition, which I use extensively in my practice and with my life and in myself, is I had to be willing to get quiet enough because it's a very subtle thing.
Abrianne Goss: That is absolutely right.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And, the practices I've put in place to cultivate. My intuition were more about slowing down and even slowing the information down. Cause it was like, initially it was so much was coming at me. It was like, it was like an old friend I hadn't talked to.
And when I said like, okay, I'm listening. It was like, oh my gosh. And then there was like all of this information and all of this stuff coming at me all so quickly, then that that's what I needed was to like, actually slow it down to be able to glean the actual messages out of it. And you know, you and I both worked with a really extraordinary intuitive counselor, Liliana Versola from Portland, Oregon.
She's now back to Portland, Oregon, actually, she's been at Bend and, and we got to train under her was one of the great gifts of going to school in Portland, where the other healers and the other practitioners that were around us, even not just directly in school and that was so much of what I got from her was how to like, have practices to be quiet and to tune in and to use visualization practices. And to let it just start with colors, just look for the color, you know, and not try and like go straight, but I've even done a lot of journaling exercises with my clients. Where if you ask the question, the answer will appear. So sometimes just taking out a piece of paper and creating a dialogue with an angel, your body, God, I don't know, like whatever the, I don't know who's answering, but I start writing questions down and then answers start showing up. And for me personally, writing made it flow and there was like more concreteness to it. I didn't second guess myself as much as just like listening, but then I got to a point where my surrender to it, and my trust for it got greater and greater. And now, I have spreadsheets and lists things I use with my practice and my clients to back up the scientific side of my analysis. I also bring an intuitive component into all my client workshops that I do with people, but ultimately it's training them.
It's sharing it and giving it away and having them. Start to ask there, you know, the questions and, and like, you talked about this partnership with your body, which that's been a theme that's come up in some of the other podcasts is like, if you're, I'm going to say this again. And I think I've said it in another episode, but if your body was a family member, what would your relationship be like?
Do we have fights?.
Abrianne Goss: Wow that's good.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Do you hate them? Do you make the wrong, you know, like, like do you only listen to them if they're screaming at you? You know, like,
Abrianne Goss: Right?
Sarah Marshall, ND: And I think part of some of the things that made it possible for you to move through those spaces was because over all those years, even before, you know, when you were working on your health in med school and afterwards, before you even had your first kiddo, You were cultivating that relationship and starting to create that dialogue between you and your body.
And you were like in a partnership moving and working together so that then you could access that and I think that's one of the more mechanisms of healing that we don't talk very much about, like when we're fighting cancer and we're trying to destroy a bug in our body. And we're, you know, like one of my friends who hopefully will get her here on an episode, she shared about having breast cancer at 35 years old.
And when she really got the message that came to her, she looked herself in the mirror and had a conversation with a cancer. And she said kind of like a bad roommate. It was just time for them to leave. I love you. Thank you for being here. You can't stay and like, but that's totally different than going to war.
You know, where, and again, to each their own where they need to be empowered because for some people learning to fight is the step forward. It's like, they've never fought for something. It's been like, they weren't allowed to express anger and that kind of aggression. So that's it. It's not like there's a one size fits.
Abrianne Goss: Right.
Sarah Marshall, ND: But I think all of that. So it's just like, you touched on so many really key things about that and you know, what does it, what does it even mean or look like to listen to our intuition and how do we go about doing that?
Abrianne Goss: Right. Exactly. You know, something that I've learned is that, you know, kids are super good at it.
And so sometimes you can use your kids to kind of help. Like..
Sarah Marshall, ND: What do you think we should do?
Abrianne Goss: Little things like that. And, and they will like, especially when they're really young, like that, that 3 to 5 age, like they're just connected and they'll give you the answer. And usually it's like spot on. And then also, like, I think one thing that's been really good for me is that my kids have just followed my path.
So, as I said, I've been learning and growing through this trusting your intuition part with having kids and so they've seen both sides of me and even... okay for an, for an example around food. We learned a lot about what's right and not. Right and wrong.
Sarah Marshall, ND: This is good. This is bad. Eat this don't eat that. There was lots of rules.
Abrianne Goss: Exactly. Lots of rules and, Abrianne, little Abrianne, who does it. Perfect. (laughs) Like
Sarah Marshall, ND: And then Little Sarah, who's going to rebel against every rule. Oh yeah? You give me a rule. I'll show you. (laughs)
Abrianne Goss: Yeah. So, so then what I did with my kids is exactly that like, no, you can't eat this food. That's bad. No, you have to eat this. This is healthy for you. This is, and what I realized is the same game I play with myself is that my kids were picking up on that exact thing. And so it was a huge like aha moment when I, when I started to change on my own, as far as giving myself some grace around food and really just honoring my body and listening to what my body wants and knowing when it says no, which also, like you said, it takes listening because you'll miss it and sometimes not honoring it and seeing what happened. (inaudible)
Exactly.
But reteaching, my kids, because I pulled them out of that place of just truly being connected to what they know is good for them and, and what is not, and, and got them into this place of like no dairy, that's bad, you know?
Yeah. So, so then it's been me, like, now that I've changed, then teaching my kids, like, okay. Foods are not bad. Foods are not bad. Are there more nutrients in whole, real food? Yes, for sure. But I'm not putting bad around food anymore. Like that's done. And, and then teaching my kids. Okay. Listen to your body. What does it want? And I've actually seen my kids start to be partway into an ice cream, something or other and say I'm done. And that's huge because I can't say I would do that, (laughs)
Sarah Marshall, ND: Good job, yeah
Abrianne Goss: But those kind of things are so awesome to see my kids pick up at a young age because I think it's been suppressed in us all. So definitely teach your kids that kind of stuff. You know, let them reconnect to that.
Sarah Marshall, ND: I've heard some stories of kiddos too, where like, I mean, this was a, I don't know what class we learned this in, but one of those soundbites that I loved, which is that infants can eat as much as a teenager or toddlers can eat as much as a teenager and teenagers need to sleep as much as a toddler.
Abrianne Goss: Oh, wow.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And we, we tend to not think about it that way at all. And we tend to think of teenagers like just young adults and they should run their lives exactly like they're going to, and honestly, with a lot of kids striving for, you know, the competitiveness of college and, and all of that, their schedules sometimes put mine to shame, you know, the extent to which they're always in an activity, they're always doing something, they're always in some sort of club, you know, and that actually the intensity of puberty and the kind of, when... we now know the central nervous system continues to develop. Our brains continue to develop throughout our entire lives. Like there's kind of no end to that, but there's a big chunk of it that gets done between the ages of 13 and 24, where we're really developing our nervous system in a very intensive way.
And like a lot of hard thinking like that, you get sleepy. And so like teenagers actually might require 10 to 12 hours of sleep. On a nightly basis. And so what we've done culturally is like completely deprived of them that, but then we know kids, teenagers are like trash compactors. They can just eat and eat and eat and eat.
Well, so can a 2- or a 3-year-old, especially right before they go through a growth spurt. So I was talking to somebody and she's like, oh yeah, I've totally seen that with my son. He's 4. And he, the other day ate like almost like a pound of hamburger in one sitting. Like he just, like, we gave him one and he ate it, we gave him another one, he ate it and he asked for another one, we gave him another one and he ate it.
And she's just like, he just, and then literally a couple of weeks later it was like, (trill sound) you know, you got to build your body out of something. Right. They're growing at this incredible rate, physically, such a cool way of looking at it. But like, you know, I think. It depends on how kids are raised, but definitely up to the age of about 4, they have a very authentic relationship to food.
Abrianne Goss: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: We could all learn a lot from like, they kinda know what they need and what they want. Now there's circumstances that can already be created when they're young, where they already are dealing with candida. They already have adrenal problems. There's stuff that's already causing them to be really craving sugar and craving carbohydrates. But generally speaking, a lot of kids like they need a certain antioxidant and they like eat all the grapes.
Like that's just like all they want and they obsess over one food. Like there might be a lot of wisdom in that. And to recognize that we could also tune into that same space,
I'm not always super great at it, but you know, I still have a love affair with grilled cheese sandwiches and ice cream.
You know, I, I have, I mean, just recently, like the pollen count in salt Lake city has been off the charts and I don't always have seasonal allergies, but for whatever reason, this season, it's just been like really intense and. I actually had to sit myself down and make a list of potential triggers and then use my intuition.
And the way I do it is I rate everything on a 1 to 10 scale and I let the number pop into my head, like how, how big a deal is this? And it was really clear, like, what was there was, I got to clean up my diet. I got to. Clean up my GI track. I got to get the gluten back out, you know, like, but actually I kind of bargained with myself a little bit of wine here and there wasn't that big a deal. As long as I stopped eating the grilled cheese sandwiches,
My intuition and I work together, you know, it's true.
Abrianne Goss: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Cool. What are some other things that you've learned from, from your kids, like specifically?
Abrianne Goss: Yeah. Gosh, what else? I mean, something really awesome is along the lines of what their immune system needs. Like they're pretty intuitive as far as that goes, so I can sit like, oh, you know, I have my like usual regimen. Oh, the options of the echinacea or colloidal silver or, oh, gosh, whatever elderberry or you name it, like lots of good general immune support.
And, and my kids can just go through and know what their body needs and regulate. Yeah. Like if I, if there is a concern with doing too much of something, but, but, it's really neat to see. See them take control over that and be able to know I could, you know. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. That's really awesome.
Abrianne Goss: One of the things I've learned from my kids, it's so much.
Sarah Marshall, ND: It's kind of a big question.
Abrianne Goss: You know, what a big thing is, is they're so playful. And I'm so serious. Like I realize how much, like joy that has been gone from my life for so many years. And I didn't want to play, like I gotta say, like I have resisted the playing, I mean like laughing, playing, like at their level, like playing with toys and dolls and stuff like that.
I've gotten so much better in the last year, but it has taken me a growing process to be able to be okay with like, having fun and joy and laughter in my life again. And I think that's just all the buildup of all sorts of different, like how life experiences affect you, but definitely it had, I had, I had lost light in life. And so I would say one of the biggest things, especially in this past year is that like, if you're willing to just be uncomfortable in that place, that triggers you whatever that is. And for me, it was like sitting there with them and playing, and noticing and observing like what I'm feeling what emotions are coming up and that kind of thing, you can actually find joy again.
And I think a lot of people have lost it at our age in life. And so, The kids are here for, to wake us up, you know, we can take it or we can fight it. I have fought it for a long time.
Sarah Marshall, ND: I have a very similar path. And interestingly enough, it's my older sister that has taught me about joy and play. And it used to be a big conflict between us.
Like, I don't know, maybe five years ago, she actually came and lived with me for about six months in Arizona. She's got this nature where she's like, come on, come on, come play. Come do something fun. I literally was like, you know what I think is fun and what you think is fun, is just not the same thing, like it's fun for me to work this hard.
It's fun for me to make spreadsheets. It's fun for me... I mean, Oh my God. You know, like I just was so committed to it and it was, I had to go through my own stuff about it too. And. And it's really, it's so interesting that you say that in the last year and who knows what's going on cosmically because I've experienced the last year, the first time in my life, where I value fun and having a good time and laughing in a way that I've never valued it before. It was like a chance saying that sometimes would happen that was great. But basically as long as I was working really hard and driven and producing results and being very significant and important in all of my communities, like that's what mattered.
Abrianne Goss: Right, right.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And it's been really in this last year, I actually kind of noticed it recently where I was like, holy crap.
Like this is a whole new thing that I've been valuing. Like now I literally asked the question. Is it fun? Otherwise I'm not doing it.
Abrianne Goss: That's good.
Sarah Marshall, ND: A massive breakthrough compared to significant, serious Sarah that was around in especially med school, oh my God. (inaudible)
Ooh,
I was serious.
Abrianne Goss: But the question is that's good. Like just asking, is it fun?
I think that's like something people can take away from this is like, it's simple. It's that simple. Like, is this fun? Okay. No. Then something needs to be different here or I need to be doing something different, you know, and you know, work can be fun, but is it still fun? Is it still fun?
Sarah Marshall, ND: So for five years, people have been telling me I needed to do a podcast.
This is like, this has been a thing. And it came at me from all angles and they're like, and I resisted it because it, for a long time, it just looked like a lot more work. More time in front of the computer, more work, more work, more work. And I was busy as get out, building my practice. And that's when it shifted was the like originating conception moment of the podcast was when I decided it was going to be a project, a hundred percent for me, that that was going to be the way I wanted it.
I didn't care if any, if anybody listened to it, if anybody else liked it, it was going to be a hundred percent like how I wanted it. And I was talking to a friend of mine. Who's really this incredible artist. She's a metal sculptor. And, she said, you know, like an art project. And that's when it shifted for me to allow this to be an art project, to be fun, to be creative, an expression of something for me, versus one more thing on my, to do list one more job to do, which there's no way I would've made it this far. If that had been the... and it's totally shifted it. And literally now it's like, fun for me. It's fun for me.
Abrianne Goss: It's like play
Sarah Marshall, ND: It's fun, it's exciting, it's play. I love all the things that have come out of it, these conversations. So, you know, and that's been its own access to health and healing for me is like, I think for many people too, this is a breakthrough I've heard from some of my people that have been through cancer in particular was they had a turning point when they realized just because they have cancer does not mean they can't like be silly and ridiculous and have fun. And that it's like make fun of it and bring play in. And that, that actually made a huge difference. Cause I think when we're really, really sick and we've got really deep stuff going on in our body, the tendency is the whole mood around us is like very significant, very serious, and very solemn.
And dude laughter therapy's a real thing.
Abrianne Goss: Yeah. It's so true. Yeah. And, and pain can put you in that place where it is really, really hard to get there. So I think like that, like overcoming that piece and can actually decrease your pain, you know, in the end of it all. Like if the, if it is in any way possible to get there, like get there.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. So, what are you up to? I know you transitioned in your practice and things, but you've shared a couple of stuff. So like, what are you creating?
Abrianne Goss: So right now I actually, Brené my last baby that I lost, caused me to shift. And so initially I was running a in-office practice and seeing patients on a day-to-day basis. And then, I just, I got the feeling I'm seeing a lot in my practice of, of moms who are in particular, in the place that I have been in. And, and, it's interesting how you draw that in, but, and finding a lot of joy in that, like, I really like working with my moms and helping them to, be able to step into their power and, and care for themselves because if they didn't know how to care for themselves, most of them, didn't know where to find the time at that point.
And so I started getting some really good results with those particular patients. And so, after I had Brené, I kind of, I had this whole idea prior actually I was pregnant with her, of getting online and being able to reach more, more, women in that who were in that place of really, really wanting to step into health and their power and be women that there's always been a longing for.
And so I thought getting online and spreading myself out and getting in touch with women who are ready for that transformation in their life on a physical level. So looking at, everything that I've learned in naturopathic school and on an emotional level, that, that would be a good platform.
And so, I'm in the process of, of, becoming the mom doc and working with people online. So in the next like three to four months is I'm going to start just going for it.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Well, that's so already who you are for me is the mom doc. And so like, you know, I'm, I can work through a lot of things. A lot of my clients, even stuff that I personally haven't been through, but when I hit certain walls, I'm like, okay, that's a lot of stuff about babies and (inaudible) and pregnancies
You know who you need to talk to you? You need to talk to Dr. Wiles Goss, it will totally work out, you know, so I'm so excited for, for that. It just, it's a really natural expression and I see you, you've just had so much personal experience and wisdom that you've cultivated through the years. It's going to be a
big gift.
Abrianne Goss: Yeah. And it's so fun. It's just so much fun for me. So thank you for that. I'm like super excited. Get my hands on moms.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Exactly. Awesome.
Abrianne Goss: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Good. Well, any parting thoughts for people on this journey that you want to just like, if you had 60 seconds to say something to the world, what would you say?
Abrianne Goss: I mean, what comes to mind is honor yourself, love yourself, cherish yourself. Don't be afraid of your power because we've all got it. And we all have something to share and it can come out in so many different ways for people it's not necessarily through career. I just mean like as a human being and, really just trusting that you are a beautiful being and use the tools that you especially, just you, only you have those gifts because. I just think life's too short otherwise. So just really just own who you are. That's been my journey. That's what I want for everyone. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Awesome. Well, I think that's the perfect place to leave people. And I can't wait to have you back when you're sharing about your new projects and everything you're starting to create and discover. And thank you so so much. My nearest friend, first roommate in med school, longtime colleague, Abrianne. Okay. Do you go by, Goss now?
Abrianne Goss: Goss, yep
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yay! Okay good. (inaudible)
Abrianne Goss: 10 years in.
Sarah Marshall, ND: It's awesome.
Abrianne Goss: Thank you Sarah too. Like I just, what you said when people were inspiring you to do this work, this is your gift. You are so incredible about connecting with people and just really, really, listening and honoring them. And I'm so grateful for what everyone is going to get from. What you're doing here. So yeah, I'm so excited where you (inaudible)
Sarah Marshall, ND: Alright, well, until next time.
Abrianne Goss: Okay, bye!
Sarah Marshall, ND: Bye!
Sarah Marshall, ND: Thanks to today's guest, Dr. Abrianne Goss for her courage and tremendously generous heart. For a full transcript and all the resources for today's show, visit SarahMarshallND.com/podcast. Learn more about finding your own healing by going to SarahMarshallND.com or following me on Instagram at @SarahMarshallND. Thanks to our music, composer, Roddy Nikpour, and our editor Kendra Vicken. We'll see you next time.