Endometriosis, Misdiagnosis, the long Path to Healing with Hilary Torn
On today's episode, we go to Tallin, Estonia to be with Hilary Torn, who shares about her journey through multiple misdiagnoses, to eventual discovery of having endometriosis, and how she found healing through self-empowerment, outside support, and the power of a plant based diet.
Referenced in the Show:
Hilary’s Bio:
Hilary is a digital marketing manager living in Tallinn, Estonia with her husband and son. You can connect with her on Twitter @hilarystjonn.
Full Transcript:
Sarah Marshall, ND: Welcome to HEAL. On today's episode, we go to Tallin, Estonia to be with Hillary Torn, who shares about her journey through multiple misdiagnoses, to eventual discovery of having endometriosis, and how she found healing through self-empowerment, outside support, and the power of a plant based diet. I'm your host, Dr. Sarah Marshall.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Thank you for being here this morning.
Well, this evening for you.
Hilary Torn: Yes. Yes. We'll see if the, I turn the light on, but I may slowly dim out (laughs) as the call goes on. Maybe not though. It's turning summer here. We have long days in the summer. So it should be okay.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And where do you live now? Like what city?
Hilary Torn: Tallinn, Estonia.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Okay, awesome. Do you love it?
Hilary Torn: Yeah, I do. Yeah, it's great. Here. It's small. It's a small town. It's very, it's it's one of the most, no, it probably is the most digitally advanced country. So you can do everything except I think it's get married and get divorced. You can do everything else online so you can buy real estate. You can update your driver's license. You can apply for me-- like everything you could do online. We have these digital signatures, people vote online. It takes, it takes them like one minute to do their taxes and they love showing it off because when I'm like doing my taxes for the U. S. Why do you have to sit down? It should take one minute. I'm like, well, this. Not every-- nothing's like Estonia when it comes to that. And there's a startup scene. So I've been I'm, I moved here to work with one startup. I'm transitioning to work with another startup, right now. So I'm switching jobs and yeah, it's, It's just really cool, but it's also a small town and it's a little mixed. It has a lot of Scandinavian influence. It's a two and a half hour ferry ride from Helsinki, Finland. So it has a lot of that influence and that's just, yeah,
Sarah Marshall, ND: I like it. Yeah. Well, want to hear all about the stories and, you know, I mean, this. So the premise of Heal is people sharing from their heart stories of healing, having healed being in the middle of their journey, wherever.
I mean, at one level, one of the big inquiries has been, are you ever done? And there's sort of no real actual end, you know? Yeah. So, thank you Hillary, for being here and for sharing and you really get to say what it is and how you want to answer these questions or share about your own journey. I just thought of you as, you had gone through so many different iterations. And then my perception was when you moved to Europe, there was a big transition. And I'm super curious about your experience of being in the American medical system and your experience of being in European and like some of the things that happened with that too.
So that's one of the reasons I thought of you.
Hilary Torn: Nice. Yeah, definitely.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Cool. So do you want to dive in and tell us your story of healing?
Hilary Torn: Yes. Yes. Do you want me to just start or do you have questions
Sarah Marshall, ND: Nope, I want you to just start and then I'll ask questions as we go. I promise.
Hilary Torn: Okay. So I would say right now I'm in, a really, really good healthy spot.
I wouldn't say I'm a hundred percent healed. I'm. I kind of. Feel like, so I was diagnosed with endometriosis. Was it 2016, 17, but I, I started to get sick and in like 2013, 14. And so it was kind of a journey to figure out what the hell was going on with my body. It was just, it was really atypical. It was constant pain, like just constant stomach pain.
It didn't seem to have a rhyme or reason to it where a lot of times endometriosis is like, I have really bad period pain. And so people are able to identify it. And usually to me, usually it seems like people have had it since their adolescents and I never had a problem until I reached my 30s.
And, so I've, as you kind of mentioned I was sick in the States, I actually, moved to Europe and I got sick again in Europe. And now I'm in this, I would say healing period. I feel great. I don't have any symptoms. However, I'm kind of really aware that if I change my lifestyle, if I change, I think a lot of it had lifestyle to do with what I was eating my stress levels.
And it could just be my body, like, like who really knows what causes this, unfortunately, even though a lot of women have it, they still don't know no a lot about it. I, you know, I'm kind of prepared that it may come back, but I also have things in place that when it does come back, I'll just beat it again. 'Cause I do have these periods like months and I think now it's been more, I think my last surgery was March of,
Sarah Marshall, ND: 2019?
Hilary Torn: Yeah. Yeah. So it's been more than a year, which is one of my longer periods of like, just feeling super, super awesome. So knock on wood. We'll keep it up. And if it comes back, I'm just prepared to like, do what I need to do to get back to this space again.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. Wow. So bring us through like this, in the beginning, there was this whirlwind of trying to figure out what you even had. Right?
Hilary Torn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, I, yeah, I had a big, I still have the papers with me even though. Like I said earlier, we're a digital country, so I don't need medical files anymore because surprisingly, here you go to the doctor and they can read all your medical files from all the doctors you visited. It's it's such a logical system. It's great. So I don't need that anymore, but in the States it wasn't like that. So I, I had basically all the tests I did. I had all the, you know, scans, all the doctor, visits, everything I had the binder. I mean, it was, it was quite thick trying to figure out what the heck was going on.
I had my appendix removed, I think in hindsight. So, I didn't have gallstones or anything like that, but my appendix wasn't functioning the way it was supposed to. I'm guessing that I probably had some endometriosis and a (inaudible) , like growing on it. And so that's why it wasn't a functioning. So when I removed that, I felt okay for a couple of months, but then it all, came back again and, it was interesting.
Cause I actually was when all these problems kind of started, I actually did have a doctor say it was endometriosis or they thought it was endometriosis, but it wasn't a great doctor. She was like, I think you have endometriosis, here's a pamphlet, read the symptoms, let me know what you think. And I was like, okay.
And I was like, well, I don't know. I have it constantly. I have really bad nausea. Like this doesn't seem to fit. And she's like, well, if you have nausea, Probably not endometriosis. And so I went on this long journey of trying to figure out what the hay it was. I, you know, I had tons of tests. I was misdiagnosed with this rare illness.
And so I was, you know, I was actually giving myself, IV injections to help with the swelling I was in and out of the ER, and you know, it's interesting because also during, through the, through this whole time, I was on a lot of painkillers. And so a lot of the time, like, I mean, that's my experience with, Oxy, you know, luckily I never got super addicted to it, but man, does that stuff mess with your personality and your memory and like just irritability and my emotions. Like, I couldn't even tell I was being mean like your brain is just, it messes with your brain, so that in such a weird way. And it's slowly, cause at first it makes you feel better. And you're like, Oh my God, I don't feel pain. I feel great. But then as the months go on you, your brain slowly starts to just get really, just, I can't even describe it.
You don't even just realize that it's altering your whole personality and really messing with who you are, or you just don't even realize it until it's too late. and so, I mean, I, I was on Oxy multiple times, right. Just because of pain. I couldn't function otherwise. Right. The pain was so bad. So, and then I had, I had my gallbladder removed. They thought it was gallbladder issues at one point, it wasn't that I tried, the diet IBS. That was a big one. Oh, you have IBS. So I did the Low-FODMAP diet, which always helped when I was having like these endometriosis, these longterm flare up, it always helped, but when I feel great, I can eat whatever I can eat tomatoes. I can eat... broccoli was a big one, onions and garlic. Those really, really were painful for me to digest. Now I don't have a problem with them. I still don't like to go heavy on the garlic and onions, but I generally don't have a problem with them. So yeah, IBS, was it, I mean, Trying to think remembering all the misdiagnosis is I've had (laughs)
Sarah Marshall, ND: I remember the conversation about fibromyalgia at one point even surfaced.
Hilary Torn: Yeah. And I think truthfully, I think that was the Oxy that caused it. I think I was on so many painkillers that my whole body was just like, all my nerves were just flaring up because when I'm not like taking anything, I feel fine. But at that point I was just, I was taking so much of the Oxy that I was just, my nerves were just on fire.
And then your whole body just hurts. I mean, just, I remember it was just hitting myself. It would hurt so badly. It was intense.
Sarah Marshall, ND: At what point in all of this pain and misdiagnosis, do you decide that you want to move across the world to another country? Like how did that come about?
Hilary Torn: Yeah, so it was interesting how it all kind of, I ended up, so I really took it into my own hands. And I think a lot of it was working with you. I mean, I think you taught me a lot of stuff about, like, I remember you were talking about being in touch with the spiritual side and just being aware of my diet and what I was eating and it got really, really bad. I got, I was in so much pain. I just became suicidal. So I ended up, going to, mental hospital in Arizona. And luckily there, they put me on tons of Cymbalta and Cymbalta as an antidepressant, but it also kind of numbs your nerves and it numbed me and on my nerves where I didn't feel pain, but it wasn't, it wasn't a pain killer.
And so it really, really helped. And I got this period where I felt, I mean, I was still hurting, but I felt better enough where I can function. I ended up, meeting or a really great guy and he kinda knew of, my illness, but he was also one of those people who was just like a caretaker. And he kind of took me in under his, way.
And we actually ended up, getting married, partly was so we could live together so I can be under his health insurance. And, during that time I started to regularly bleed out of my belly button. And it just, at first it was just a little bit, and I went, I remember going to the urgent care and they were like, Oh, you just have some infection there or you scratched yourself.
I'm like, okay. And it ended up each month, it ended up getting worse and worse. And I realized that coincided with my period. I was actually having my period out of my fricking belly button. And it's because I had surgery. Yeah. I had surgery before, to remove my appendix through my belly button. And so I think it's just the endometriosis started growing out that way.
And it's a very rare symptom of endometriosis, but I Googled it. And then I realized, because it was coinciding with my period, I just realized that endometriosis was all of these problems I was having. And so I found, a really good surgeon and she was located in Phoenix .
And, I ended up getting surgery and I felt great. She was able to remove all of it. It was fabulous. This was in 2016, I think it was, Yeah, it was probably that summer, June, July, August of 2016. And so as soon as I started to feel better, I realized I had to get out of the United States because the chances of it coming back, could have possibly happened. And I just like the system had wiped me out. I couldn't work. There was no, There was no safety net there. I mean, I almost ended up homeless. I slept one night in my car. I couldn't work. If you can't work, you can't get health insurance. The state health insurance doesn't cover anything. I mean, the fact that I had to like, you know, I mean, not had to, you know, it was a choice. To marry this guy and he was, it was great, but it was definitely that my health was a huge factor of why we jumped into it.
Sarah Marshall, ND: You guys created that. But that's why you created it, right?
Hilary Torn: Yeah, exactly. I was just, I was, I was, you know, really, really desperate to just. Have something to take care of me and, and, you know, luckily I had him, but not everyone has that.
And so I knew as soon as I felt better, I needed to get over to Europe. But also at that time, Trump was elected and I realized like that, like stress, I was already quite, I moved back to the States to spend time with my family who, you know, actually ended up not being super supportive. I mean again, I was on Oxy, so I probably wasn't the greatest person to support at that time, but I was kind of had them always as my backup plan.
It's like, well, if I get really sick, my family will help me. And they just, I don't think they understood the illness. They kind of thought it was more in my head than an actual thing, which is again, very common with endometriosis and so I just realized that I needed to get back to a place where if I was working, I'd have that kind of support system. And so I, this guy was willing to help me, you know, I I'm actually really grateful for him cause I, I was thinking about him today cause I have a child now and like he wouldn't exist if it wasn't for this guy who was willing to just give himself to me so I could be over here. So, He helps me come over here.
I found a job and I moved over here and I was actually first in Prague, Czech Republic, and I moved over here and I found work and I'm glad I did because I ended up getting sick again.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Wow.
Hilary Torn: Needing surgery again. And, and it was way different in your... sorry.
Sarah Marshall, ND: No.
Hilary Torn: I'm getting so emotional.
Sarah Marshall, ND: So welcome to the heal podcast. This has become a common occurrence where we both start tearing up as we get into it.
I mean, this is what it looks like. These are the real conversations.
Hilary Torn: Yeah. So, I mean, I, you know, I was really glad I did because, about nine months after my surgery, I started to feel the pain again and get sick again. And so I had to, you know, kind of go back to healing myself again, you know, and the doctors only know so much, they, they they're great, but I do really believe they are practicing medicine.
They don't know my body as well as I know my body. And so I was in Czech Republic. I speak Czech. Luckily, cause I, I lived there before and I learned the language and I was in the Czech Republic. And, I was, yeah, I just started to see doctors and kind of. You know, get, the help I needed. But unfortunately I, the surgeon I found did not get all the endometriosis.
So the surgery I had in Czech Republic didn't help. I actually didn't feel good afterwards. And so I was using a lot of marijuana. I used medical marijuana in Arizona, but in Czech Republic, it's not legal, but it practically is. I think you could have like a plant and you can do personal use. So using
Sarah Marshall, ND: like decriminalized kind of, I think.
Hilary Torn: Yeah. And then, I, they put me back on Oxy because they were kind of like, well, you had the surgery and, You know, I was able to work and, live an okay li-, it was simple life. I didn't do a lot of traveling. I had some ferrets to kind of keep me company at home.
and, luckily, you know, the Oxy again, as I said, it makes you feel great for a couple of months before you start to kind of crash. And I ended up finding work in Estonia. Told my bos-, the guy who was hired me that I had this, that I didn't feel great. And he was. He, you know, and he still wanted me, which was amazing and I ended up moving to Estonia, which was great because they, because I think the Scandinavian influence, I was able to find a better surgeon. And so I, you know, and she said, if they leave a tiny little bit on there, if they don't get it all, you can still have the pain. And so it got really bad.
I took some time off of work and then I had surgery again. And after the surgery, I felt great. And so I started to, come off the drugs and I did it really, really quickly just because one, I kind of knew what they were doing to me and that I didn't need them anymore. And I. I kind of felt like I'd rather have like two weeks of intense withdrawals and like months of this long, like, you know, not as intense, but they just mess with your brain.
And so I ended up coming off them and yeah, I felt good ever since. She highly recommended, I got pregnant as like to help with the endometriosis. I've read studies that that probably doesn't really help with endometriosis, but I was ready. I had, yeah, I was ready. I, I met the right person and, and you know, we were kind of expecting not to get pregnant right away because people with endometriosis generally have infertility issues and we got pregnant right away (laughs) right away.
It was like that first month. It was fine. And so I felt, you know, besides being pregnant, my pregnancy was quite easy and I felt great. And so, so far. So good. It's, it's been good, but it, you know, you really, I really did feel that I fought for my health. You know, I didn't give up, I changed, you know, my diet, I started by stop eating red meat. That's supposedly isn't supposed to be good. I stopped with the alcohol. It's definitely not good. I was actually thinking the other day I was like, I should have a glass of wine again. And I'm like, no, that stuff just messes with me. It's not, it's not worth it. So, you know, I stopped first with the red meat and then, I don't know.
I did do whole food plant based for awhile. I felt better. It didn't get rid of the endometriosis. I needed surgery at that point, it was so bad. But I, you know, it, it just made me realize I didn't need all these animal products to help me function or just to feel like good, you know? Yeah. And then, my husband now, he, when I met him, he was vegan.
Which I loved. I thought it was great. I was like, okay. But I wasn't, I always had like a eggs and cheese, cheese. Oh, I still love cheese, cheese. I miss, I don't miss chicken now. And, and pork, I sometimes miss, but I kinda, you know, think more of the animals. I just. You know, I think there's a lot of documentaries now talking about how these animal products really aren't that great for us.
And I think the hormones in cheese too, I just actually, I think it was like three months into my pregnancy. I still have this feeling, oh, I need to eat like eggs for the baby and stuff. And I realized, I was like, I really, I don't, I really don't. If I eat like a balanced diet, which I'm still working on, my husband kind of.
He, he worries about me not eating enough vegetables and you know, beans and stuff like that, which is great. It's good to have that kind of, that kind of push, but I eat way better than I ever have before. (laughs)
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, totally. (inaudible) That side.
Cause like, you know, I was born and raised a vegetarian. I was vegan until I was 8 because I couldn't tolerate dairy. And then I started eating dairy and then didn't eat meat till I was 25. Then I went paleo and was full paleo for about five years. And then I'd say I've been paleo leaning, but I really am an omnivore. And, it had been 15 years since I changed my diet to paleo. And last year I had this like, realization that I had an opinion about being vegan, but not an actual experience in my body about it. And so I did a 30 day vegan, mostly raw juice cleanse.
And it just was a giant reset button. And like I do still eat meat and I order beef from a grass fed farm up in Idaho. And I know the farmer and I know how they operate and I just get one animal. And then I order fish from a fishing collective up in Alaska that has a sustainable wild fishery. And that's like 95% of the animal products I consume.
But what happened when I did the vegan cleanse last year is I realized I was full of it, that I thought I ate a lot of vegetables.
No, I've not been eating a lot. So I like that greatly increased my awareness of eating way more vegetables. I continued juicing. I continued having that in my life and I just noticed that like, I can listen to my body and there'll be times when I lean more towards animal protein and there's other times where I lean more towards plants. And like, I I've been actually incorporating more grains in my diet in the last year than I ever have before. Like I would like never, ever, ever make grains. And then I would binge on pizza and I would like not cook rice or quinoa, but I would like make grilled cheese sandwiches all the time. And I'm like, okay, who are you fooling? Right. So it's like,
Hilary Torn: yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: I've come back into it. And I, I, I know endometriosis, I don't know. I've had, I've heard that endometriosis is one that is heavily leaning towards vegan. Vegetarian makes a huge difference. And I think probably the one component is a, is a big part of it. And, you know, I just love your exploration of finding what works for you and resonates in your body. And I will say I was way more vegetarian when I lived in the Netherlands. and I can't speak very, educatedly about the exact differences between the food system in Europe and the food system, the United States, but it's different.
And it feels different, and when I was over there, it was like, we we'd eat meat twice or three times a week and I felt great and I had everything I needed. And like, it was just different.
Hilary Torn: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, I don't think I was ever. You know, I it's funny. Cause if you talked to me six years ago and said I would be vegan, I would have laughed at you like you're joking. I was like, no way. I mean, I used to be a Hunter. I hunted my own meat. And so like the idea I always kind of would make fun of vegans and vegetarians. So there's no way. And now I kind of can't see myself really eating meat anymore. I've even cried. It's interesting. Cause like I've done it. I did it for health reasons and then environmental reasons as well, just because eating meat is not sustainable. I actually think of this, you know, COVID-19 a lot of the, they're talking now about how, how we treat livestock, even though this was like an exotic food market that it came from, like
Sarah Marshall, ND: yeah.
Hilary Torn: And the next one could easily come from a pig farm in Kentucky.
So, you know, there's, there's that reason too, but now I'm also kind of really loving animals too. So I kind of have this, this, I finally picked up like the, kind of the moral quote unquote aspect of it, but it was kind of the last reasoning for it. And it's also, I think that. You know, I just have always had an opinion. Like, I, I would apologize to people when I first it's like, I'm a vegan, but, but not one of those, not a mean vegan, or I'm not going to judge you. I won't like make fun of your like meat and stuff. So I kind of always apologize for being vegan, where, yeah, so, but, but now it's just the way it's been a while.
I think I've been, been a vegan and I mean, truthfully, I still, you know, Eat honey, which technically is not vegan. So I would say I'm more of a plant eater is probably a better term for it, but, we're really lucky here in Estonia. There's just tons of vegan restaurants. There's amazing. We have a vegan festival twice a year when you're allowed to go out and be with people.
There's this great festival that just sells tons of great food. And so I don't feel like I'm missing out any more. I mean, I even make homemade, quote, unquote mozzarella made out of cashews and tapioca starch that tastes great. I make amazing vegan lasagna with tofu. It's not like super hard to make. And so
Sarah Marshall, ND: I grew up on that stuff, totally. I actually don't even like meat in certain recipes because my childhood experience was always vegan lasagna, and you know, things like that.
Yeah. It's pretty wild. Yeah. I, I, you know, that was what was just so great about, like, for me, the breakthrough last year was I don't want to be an anything. I don't. I eat good food from good sources and to not have it be labeled inside of any one diet.
And that was a big shift, especially after going to naturopathic school. I mean, it was ingrained in us. What was good? What was bad? What was right, what was wrong? And we did have the different camps. There was like the paleo, it was like cliques in high school, but in naturopathic med school, it was diet cliques.
It was like the vegans were over here. And then we were the leg Weston A. Price sauerkraut, probiotic toting, grass fed beef, like that was our paleo world. And you had the omnivores fighting in the middle and it was, it was, it was hilarious, you know?
Hilary Torn: And it's interesting too, what you said.
I think a lot of times too diet helps just like a reset. Like I did vegan keto for a while, which I, I don't know if I could do that sustainably for like longterm and maybe it's not the greatest, cause it's very high fat intake, but. It helped. I mean, this was when I was still having endometriosis flare ups. It really helped lower my inflammation. It helps me just get rid of sugar cravings. Like I barely eat sugar now. I mean, maybe I'll make some recipes with honey and maple syrup, but those are like my cheat days. And for the most part, our desserts are frozen berries. I mean, we just stick to the fruit and it was that diet where I realized like, after I stopped that diet and started eating fruit again, I realized how sweet fruit is.
It's amazingly sweet. It's like, I didn't need. And anything with like refined sugar. It was just way too sweet. So it didn't even taste good. It was just overwhelming. Yeah. So, and I just realized like a keto diet, that's something I would probably want to do again, just to have a reset, like what you were talking about with the vegan cleanse.
It's nice to get that kind of reset every once in a while. Absolutely.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And to not get so stuck in our, our thinking about food, where it's like, you can only be one way, you know, it's like we get addicted to that. And recognizing, this conversation is totally inspiring me that I'm due for another one of those. It's like, again, hit the reset button and like, and have, you know, there's, there's therapeutic diets that are food is medicine. Literally the diet is the, is the medicine. To help reset things to super saturate. I mean, your nerves are made out of fat. Your brain's made out of fat so I can totally get how. Yes it calmed inflammation. It also helped just restore and rebuild to, to do everything Keto, you know, but that doesn't mean that you have to live that way for the rest of your life. There's bringing it in, and I was just talking to a client about this the other day, which is like once upon a time, when we were really dependent on the seasons for how we ate, there would be periods of time where you had the large mammals and you ate a ton of fat and a ton of protein, and then you wouldn't have that. And you eat a lot of root vegetables and you'd eat a lot of starchy things that were high carbohydrates. And like when the harvest would come in towards the end of summer early fall, we got fat on carbohydrates. That's that was a survival skill. Like now we get so mad when we get fat off of carbohydrates. It's like our body spent 65,000 years making sure we could get fat off of carbohydrates to freaking make it through the winter. And it's a natural. Survival mechanism that we have. And so, you know, but we want to look exactly the same all the time and not have that. And we also don't go through a period of famine where we fast all winter either, so
Hilary Torn: But I've heard it, but it's interesting too. You bring up fasting cause that's, I've heard a lot of people and it's something I've always wanted to try and do this intermittent fasting, where they don't eat for like 12 hours or a certain set of hours. I'm breastfeeding. So I'm not doing any resetting anything right now, but that always kind of interests me too, because they say that they feel great.
It really helps them. It's yeah. It's tough. Very interesting. The human body.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Totally. Yeah. And I just want to underscore it's like there's no, there's there's no, the answer it's like what I love, what you said earlier was that. The doctors were practicing medicine, they were practicing. Nobody knew your body the way you did.
And the more you tuned in, and the more you got in touch with that, like that, I mean, for me, that's the ultimate, I think. So as you've been through this journey, like, what were some of the surprises? What are the things you never expected to have to face?
Hilary Torn: I wasn't expecting to get help where I got help and where I was expecting help, and I didn't get help. Like, that was really surprising for me. Right. And there's nothing I don't. No, I'm really close to my family now. And people get weird around illness. I just, I realized this. And so I actually, my mom, ended up getting quite ill and she's going through another period right now. And, you know, she lost a couple of friends too. And even other people in my family that... people just get weird. They just, they, they, I think it brings up their own mortality. They don't know how to act. They don't know how to behave. And so I've kind of. Just realize that's, you know, that some people just act different than what you expect. And so it's been, I think one of the reasons why I was really successful... because I could have easily gone down the path of just, you know, giving up completely, being completely suicidal, homeless, just completely addicted on drugs, any of that easily. But. I I'm just very persistent, I think. And I'm, I'm really always trying to figure stuff out. I'm like, no, I can. And it was hard. I mean, it was years of trying to figure out what the hell is going on with my body, but I wasn't willing to accept that I was going to be sick forever. I just was not. And a lot of times it looked like I was, and it's like, okay, I've IBS. You can't get rid of IBS. Well, what can I do? Oh, there's a diet. I can try. Okay. I'll try this diet. Let's do that. That helped a little bit. But you know, it was an idea. So it didn't help. You know completely. And sometimes it was just time and like, I just needed the time to start bleeding out of my belly button so I could figure out the hell it was, so over time things change, but I think, you know, what really helped me be successful is I asked for help everywhere and I took help where I could get it.
And it wasn't all the places I expected. It was a lot of, places that I didn't expect to get help. And, it's like, you assume someone you're with for two years will kind of be with you through it. And it ends up being with someone you've been with for three months that is going to help you through it.
And so it's not where you always expect and just being willing to continue to ask and to continue to reach out. I think really helped me find myself here.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. That's definitely been my experience of you is you will never give up, which I love and adore about you.
Yeah, that's awesome. And how has it being a mom?
Hilary Torn: It's great. It's you know, I'm really creating having it all. Cause I'm, I'm really loving my career as well. We get, 140 days of it's like sick maternity leave. We're only the it's like basically the mom gets it and, and you just stay at home and be with your kids. So I'm in that period right now, which is great.
I'm still doing some work here and there just to keep me kind of entertained, but you do get this like amazing attachment to these little people. Mine wasn't instant. A lot of women talk about like once he was in my arms, oh my god, my world just explode. Mine didn't explode. I mean, I loved him immediately, but it was like, you know, slowly over time, you just start loving him more and more. And, he's great. He's also a really, I think I'm not that I've had tons of kids. He's my first one, but he's a chill kid. He just seems like he, his cries really communicate what he wants and, you know, I'm able to kind of, calm him. He's 11 weeks and he only wakes up like, once in the middle of the night and then once early morning, so I'm getting a lot of sleep, which is great. I really, really, really liked my sleep. So it's been a really great experience, but it's a lot of hard work. I can't believe people have more than one of these things (laughing) so much work, but it's great.
Yeah. And then my husband's going to take the, we get a year and a half of, Parental leave that either parent can take. And so my husband's going to take that and stay home so I can work on my career. Just pretty awesome. Yeah. Amazing. Am
Sarah Marshall, ND: I haven't been through having kids in the United States. I haven't been through having kids period, but, did you just say a year and a half?
Hilary Torn: Yeah, I'm like on top of the 140 days. And. By the way it's a hundred percent pay, based on the last, the 12 months of money you made, before you got pregnant. So it stops as soon as you get pregnant. And then we paid five euros for the pregnancies tests to confirm it. And then we paid, I think, 15 euros for me to have a private room in the hospital after I gave birth.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Wow.
Hilary Torn: That was it. We didn't pay anything. And they actually gave us money. They really want more Estonians. So we got like, I think 390 euros once he was born as like a bonus.
Sarah Marshall, ND: They want more Estonians? They like want you to have kids?
Hilary Torn: Yes. So they gave us money. We get, (inaudible) we get 60 euros a month for having him. We got a gift basket with a bunch of clothes from the city, like you get a lot for it's like way, I don't know how people have kids in the States like... this experience. I mean, a hundred percent a for basically practically two years. That's I mean, you don't have to worry about anything else. I mean, obviously we're, you know, a bit worried about the economy, but we're both, we both work in digital fields, so we're, we're pretty okay. And, yeah, we're just kinda, we're kind of set. They really. Take care of us. Yeah. So
Sarah Marshall, ND: I love, I mean, I remember when we were talking years ago, like your heart was just there. Like that was so, you know, you, you had been living there and then you came back to the United States. And I remember us having many long conversations where you're like, I just don't, this isn't my home like I gotta go home and home's over there. So it's so great to see you thriving and, you know, working through it all to get, to be there.
Hilary Torn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It was, it was an interesting, I mean, I was talking to an American friend here and he was just like, it's just, he's like, I'm in awe of you, Hilary, 'cause I keep expecting that I should go back to the States and live there and like, you know, you're just like here. And I was like, I was like that too though. Like when I moved over here, you just kind of always. It's kind of like that you're a bad American, if you don't like it there, or if there's you find a place that's better than cause U.S. Is the best country in the world. And so I kind of felt guilty. And so I ended up going back and then I realized, no, I should be back here. So yeah, I I'm, I feel very fortunate. I mean, even during this, Like during this time too. I like, so people get automatically unemployment, 50% pay for six months. If they lose their job, if they lose their job due to COVID-19, they get 70% for the next two months.
So there there's a lot and we have healthcare paid for. So no one has to worry about like, you know, I, I. Took my son to the doctor. I had to sign a form saying if I had any symptoms, I told them I had a sore throat. The last couple of days probably allergies. He asked me if I wanted to take a COVID-19 test.
I said, sure. They called me five minutes after leaving the doctor's office. I got tested within an hour. I got my results the next day. It was like, boom, boom, boom, boom. So I feel very fortunate, you know, after kind of I'm, I'm quite worried about my family in the States, just knowing that it's a little bit chaotic there and it's yeah.
Not, you know, it's hard to get tested. People need to get tested and that sort of thing. So it's very, I think we're very, I'm very fortunate to have not have to worry about the healthcare aspects of this stuff at all.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And what an impact that, that has in stress reduction, especially when we're going through a major illness.
You know, I've had friends in my life and, you know, clients of mine that are going through major illnesses and a huge amount of their stress is just figuring out how to pay for it and dealing with bills and miscommunications and long phone calls and all of the administration side of it, you know? And then I have friends who are doctors and nurses and they're inside of it. They're just as frustrated. They're also trying to, you know, so it's like, it's not like... there's no us versus them. It's just...
Hilary Torn: Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. You know, and hopefully that's something that does crack open at some point in my lifetime would be amazing to see that shift here. And I honestly don't know that it will, but one podcast at a time standing for what's possible in healthcare and healing.
Yeah, totally. Well, I just so appreciate you taking the time to share. I mean, it's, it's, I think it's a story that actually is going to resonate with a lot of people because there's so many people out there that are struggling with people thinking it's all in their head or not knowing what the diagnosis is and that whole process of figuring this stuff out sometimes can be pretty remarkable. And I love how you've continued to create your dream life throughout the whole thing. And you know, you're doing it.
Hilary Torn: Yeah. And that was definitely, I think one of the hardest parts was not knowing what it is. And then people questioning you to the point you start questioning yourself.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Hmm.
Hilary Torn: Right. But you just like, I think another reason why I was quite successful, is I realized no one was going to solve this for me. I was going to solve this for myself. And so I kept, you know, working with you. I, I worked with, other people as well. I worked with, you know, doctors and surgeons and just kept kind of going to different people.
And eventually you reach a dead end with someone where you realize there's nothing else you can learn from them. And then you just find the next doctor, you find the next surgeon, you find the next healer to work with and, and you. Until you, you know, get to understand yourself and realize, find out what your body needs and that's (inaudble)
Sarah Marshall, ND: it's your path. It really is your path. And yeah, I always with my clients am like, if there's something else that's calling you trust that, you know, like, I, for some people I'm just a catalyst. They come in, they get information, they go out, they move on to what's next. And then for some people they're with me for years and years and years.
And there's no like way that that should be it's. It's. That resonance and getting those pieces of information you need. And then when you're complete, you're complete and it's time to move on. Yeah. Awesome.
So any parting words for people who are on this journey with what they're dealing with? Like what if you could give yourself advice from six years ago?
What would you say?
Hilary Torn: I would say besides like the, you know, don't give up, just realize it's going to keep evolving and changing. So where it seems like it's always going to be like this, it's not. Just get through this period one day at a time and you'll get either another symptom or you'll meet the right person or you'll find the right doctor and you'll get through the next step.
Just realize life isn't stagnant. It's not going to always stay. So if you're in a really hard spot right now, just realize in a couple of months, you'll be in another spot and just keep kind of looking for what it is, whether it's going to the mental hospital, that's, you know, it sounds like the, not the greatest experience to go to the mental hospital cause you're so suicidal. They pumped me up with so much Cymbalta. I couldn't feel my nerves anymore. It was awesome. It was a great experience at the end of it. In the beginning, it was horrible. And even during it, it didn't feel that great cause you, you know, you feel crazy and, and like you kind of don't belong in society and you know, it was exactly what I needed at the time.
And so even ending relationships. Starting relationships, whether it's with a lover or friends or family, all of that, you just need to really kind of listen to your body and what you need and kind of be on the lookout for what's the next thing that's going to move me to where I need to be to get out of this.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, perfectly said, I love it. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and sharing your heart and your journey. It was really, really great to be with you.
Hilary Torn: You're most welcome. Thank you for having me. I hope I can give anybody else who's going through this some sort of hope that it will get better.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Awesome. Good. All right. Until next time.
Hilary Torn: Bye.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Bye.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Thanks to today's guest, Hillary Torn, for her candor and sunny perspective. For a full transcript and all the resources for today's show, visit SarahMarshallND.com/podcast. You can learn more about finding your own healing journey by going to SarahMarshallND.com or following me on Instagram at @SarahMarshallND. Thanks to our music composer, Roddy Nikpour and our editor, Kendra Vicken. We'll see you next time.