Shifting the Context around Autism and Spectrum Disorders with Wendy Burkhard
On today's episode, mother and leader, Wendy Burkhard shares a rare and powerful conversation in the critical importance of love and joy in raising her daughter who deals with seizures, cognitive delays, and aspects of autism.
Referenced in the Show:
Wendy’s Bio:
CEO Mom
Six Figures for Mom (IG @sixfiguresformom)
Activist
Environmentalist
Dreams Fulfilled
Full Transcript:
Sarah Marshall, ND: Welcome to HEAL. On today's episode, mother and leader, Wendy Burkhard shares a rare and powerful conversation in the critical importance of love and joy in raising her daughter who deals with seizures, cognitive delays, and aspects of autism. I'm your host, Dr. Sarah Marshall.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Wendy, thanks for being here. And thanks for coming and sharing your heart and your story. And you know, this just gets to be an exploration for us in this conversation. Cause that's what healing is all about is venturing out into the unknown.
That's one of the things I've discovered is a breaking point between physiologically making your body do something and actually healing is usually the moment when my client or someone around me says, all the known stuff I've been doing, isn't working anymore. And we got to go out past that edge into the unknown. And that's when that's, when it gets fun or scary. Or all the things.
Wendy Burkhard: Right.
Sarah Marshall, ND: So where do you want to start?
Wendy Burkhard: There's two journeys. There's my own journey. And then there's my daughter's journey, you know, from a mother's perspective. and, there's probably a lot more than I can contribute from a mother's perspective and I think I'll start, I think I'll just start with that.
And that's so, my daughter, her journey began, well, when she was born and, but about four months into the journey is when she started to have some seizures and that was pretty eye opening. I didn't really know what I was looking at. And it's interesting because in that same timeframe, I was just discovering for myself more about how to live healthier. So it was like she came, she came into this life almost like knowing who to come to, to heal. And me not knowing that I was going to be providing and contributing in the very beginning to heal more like. you kno, as a parent, we're like, no, we're going to raise a child and keep them healthy. But, but when we were presented with her, you know, her condition, it was a little scary at first. Cause I didn't know the first thing about, pharmaceutical drugs and how to treat seizures and, so that was a big learning curve. But what's made the biggest difference is being open to discovering what other modalities could support her in kind of lessening the load of the burden of the impact of the seizures, you know, so, and the impact of the pharmaceutical drugs, which, you know, today, 11 years, 11 years later, you know, I still administer the drugs, but there's a part of me that's getting to this place where I'm starting to realize, like she chose this body.
Right? And, I've, they've really done a lot to, to support her, but, but I've also noticed that it's. Come from a place of trying to fix the seizures or make them go away. And I almost feel like she is okay. You know, one of the things that we said as parents awhile back several years ago, quite a few years ago, was that to her it's just part of every day. It's just, you know, it doesn't land, it doesn't occur for her. Like there's something wrong here, you know? And that, I think where I've grown in supporting the healing process for her is sort of stepping back away from trying to fix it and really offer an environment where she can thrive.
And, and that includes, you know, having fresh, you know, pesticide-free organic foods prepared for her. That includes, you know, having proper supplementation that's, you know, scientifically backed by, you know, real science, and having, And having a lot of love. And I think that that's, that's really where I wanted to go with this whole journey in the beginning when I first started talking, was that it's, it's the love.
That's present, not just in how we are with her and how much we love her, but , it's at the core of who she is like her being like. So, so there's this balance that's there in the, in the healing process that is naturally happening because she is the vibration of love. Like she's just love and joy (laughs) pretty much all the time.
And you know, and then who we are with her and how we be with her is so loving and accepting. And, and that just, I feel like that really cultivates the environment, enriches the environment in which she gets to heal and thrive in.
Mhm. So from an
Sarah Marshall, ND: outsider's perspective, and I know there's lots of different ways to relate to this, but what's her official diagnosis. Like what was it? And maybe it's even changed over the years, but.
Wendy Burkhard: It hasn't, it hasn't changed. It was always, epilepsy, some developmental delay, some cognitive intellectual disability.
I don't know what word to use, but we're kind of fine tuning that part. Like, like as she gets older, her brain is still growing. The ability to contextualize, the ability to understand different concepts is, is opening up more and more. I think up until about age 8, she really couldn't decipher whether you knowsomething was hot or cold or understand the concept of it, unless she touched something that was really hot.
But again, that that's typically how most kids learn, but I think by age 8, that's later in the game for her. So, and because of the way the, her brain kind of developed there's, there's also been some characteristics of autism. So that's been an interesting discovery in how to really support her in some of the typical like behaviors that occur that might not be appropriate for her to get something done or learn something in school or, you know, so like working with all that too. Yeah. There's a lot of different aspects.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. And, and so like, I almost hesitated even asked the question because one of the things that I've grappled with in my own work and with clients is like, where diagnosis can be a trap and where diagnosis can be empowering because it gives you distinction around what's so, and, and what there is that could be done differently. And I think a lot of our cultural relationship to diagnosis is more like a trap. It's like a life sentence. It's like, it now means something about you and you are this way. And there's a deficiency. Versus just being like a color, like something's like green or it's orange or it's red or it's yellow.
And it's like, there's not like green is bad and red is good. It's just this like what's so. And we don't often hold medical diagnoses that way, especially with the development of our children and all of that. And so like how has that been for you?
Wendy Burkhard: Well, I can definitely see it being a trap. Simply because every time we have a, an appointment with the neurologist, the very first question is, has she had any seizures?
And then after that discussion, the next point is let's look at the medication, you know, and her neurologist always wants to add in more medication, because she still will have a seizure from time to time and in their view, that's, that's not. Okay. So, and I don't jump to that. I literally kind of just say to the neurologist that, you know, we're, we're going to hold where we are at the levels and the doses that we're on. And, the neurologist is very clear that our goal and our intentions is that she be seizure-free and medication free at some point in her life. And she may never, I don't know, but that's, that's where we stand. And, that's why I've been so open to discovering what other forms of healing modalities we can do to support her. CBD has been something for sure, that has been part of her journey for a while now, probably the last five years.
So. I'm definitely not, a human being that conforms or likes to conform (laughs) there's some thing I have to conform to, but, and, yeah, I just, I, or, you know, as any parent would say, they want the best for the child and they don't like to see their child suffer, you know?
And, so I don't know. I really feel like we could take this conversation about my daughter's diagnosis into a whole different arena, in that when I've witnessed, when she has a seizure, sometimes afterwards, her speech is clearer. She will say something new that she's never said before. It's almost like the circuitry and the wiring did something to forward her development, miraculous, you know, kind of download or something. (laughs)
Sarah Marshall, ND: I'm like sitting on the edge of my seat right now, because I mean, your visceral experience and discovery and willingness to observe and willingness to look to even look through the possibility that the seizures might not be a problem. Like we just assume seizures are bad and doing damage.
We literally assume it because if you look at MRIs and if you look at the brain, we don't have evidence that the seizures actually do damage in a lot of cases. If not most of them, it's just that when we witness it now, there's making sure they're in a safe space and making sure that they don't injure themselves. Like there are things to be responsible for.
But it's, so fascinating and exciting. I don't have the, the research for seizures, but I do have research for febrile seizures and fevers, and it's been well documented that 1.) Febrile seizures are not epilepsy. It's not the same thing. Lots of kids have normal functioning, healthy brains have the normal standards that we use and they'll have febrile seizures and it's not. And there's some documentation that actually shows that when they go through that process, there's a jump in development. They'll go from being a 2-year-old who hasn't yet fully formed sentences to speaking fluently. They'll go from crawling to walking and, and there's more naturopathic medicine that we look at of even the inflammatory state or disease state that brought them into that fever. So whatever was going on, like all that I call a good cold or a flu exercise for the immune system. Like sometimes you need a good whopping cold to like..., and you know, we're in a pandemic right now giving the world's immune system (laughs) a giant...
and I'm curious, like, what's the upgrade that's going to come out of this? What's what are the downloads that are coming in? What are the things we're discharging and a seizure is a form of discharge. It's like her body might have this pent up energy. That finally gets to a point where she goes through the seizure process, but that completely resonates with my experience with my clients and with other similar circumstances where what actually happens is that there is a release and a shift and maybe even an upleveling for her experience of life. It's like so exciting to hear you say that
Wendy Burkhard: You described it very well. I mean, I feel recreated (laughs) completely.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah.
Wendy Burkhard: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: At such a completely different way of experiencing your child, having a seizure. You know?
Wendy Burkhard: Well, and it's like a, a blessing because there's, you know, over here I have, I guess the only thing that I can think of how to describe it, it's just peace of mind, like there's yeah. I have a concern that the pharmaceutical drug over time is going to, you know, build up and build up and build up and build up and create whatever it does. Right? The toxicity of that. And you know, what do we, what do we do to eliminate that toxicity? But, you know, but for the most part, the listening that I have, it leaves me in a place of peace. And, and I know that my listening, that there's nothing wrong and there's nothing to fix, this is just what's so. I know that impacts her peace.
Cause if I'm, you know, worried and freaking out and all that, she's going to absorb all that energy. And how's that going to make any kind of difference in her healing?
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. Yeah.
So you said that's one place. The conversation could go, (laughs) what are some of the others that are there for you?
Wendy Burkhard: Okay, well
I don't know. I really don't know what she would say if she, if she could answer this question, but I would say her purpose here is to contribute, to healing the world. And how many parents look at their children from that perspective? I don't know, really know where to go with that. Other than I, I just intuitively know that she is here to inspire, given what she had is dealing with and given all that she is here to inspire and, and bring joy and love to the planet. And we really could use that more of that.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And I think also, still about that, like, Okay. There's where we can be empowered by the diagnostics where it gives us information, like what is there things to be responsible for and what could be done that would make a difference for her enjoyment and fulfillment in life. You know, like there's, there's that aspect of being with it. And it's interesting that like, and this is common with children with a different way of developing through life. Right? We put the label on as delayed, but that's only against our years of research and our timeline of the way we've decided it's supposed to go versus she's just doing it differently. Like, like it's it, she's developing when she's developing and she's creating, but then to be able to actually say, mostly my child's way of being, or as a person, not even as a child, her, her as a person, her way of being is being love and being joy pretty much all the time.
And I've had the privilege of spending time with her. And that is exactly my experience of her is just like love and joy. And yet we have the tendency to be like, well, there's this deficiency over there, but I'm going. Uh is there? Really? Like, I can't say that about my life that I've spent the majority of my time just being love and being joy, you know, like, so in that realm, I have a whole theory that add, and ADHD is not at all a disability. It's really what's next. It's our brains evolving into the next level and that many of the people that struggle with the diagnosis, what they're really struggling with is that we're the slow ones, their brain's moving way faster than us. Most people can't keep up with them. They see things that most of us can't see, and they're ready to get on when the rest of us are still catching up.
And I'm like, you know, when you shift that context. So I think there's a lot of this that's happening in our human evolution, where we're pushing out to these new boundaries of ways of being and ways of acting and, and all of that. So it's, I don't know, but I, I could see that statement of what you can perceive as her purpose in life and what she's here for is just a continuation of that. She is a, she's a physical example of like a real possibility in the world that for most of us, isn't the way that we live.
Wendy Burkhard: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's just a pure privilege and joy to be the chosen one to guide. You know, I'm guiding and she's guiding. I mean she's guiding me. You know, we're guiding daddy, we're guiding Nana. (laughs) yeah. Yeah. I was very quick to let go in the beginning of the milestones, those standards that were set all made up. What milestone she should be at by what age. And, it's quite silly when you look at it.
And that's even in the learning and the education process too. Right? Each child learns at their own pace and they learn differently. You know, some are touchy feely, some are visual. It's just, there's so much room right now for expansion and transformation and new ways of operating in this being called a human being.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah.
Wendy Burkhard: You know, and, I think we're just on the, the verge of a major explosion into I don't want to say I'm a new world, but (laughs)
Sarah Marshall, ND: I know, right? Yeah. And it, there's just such an opportunity. I mean, the more I learn about history and particularly history of education, which, you know, impacts the decisions we make about our kids profoundly. A massive amount of the infrastructure that we still use was invented 400 years ago before we had the ability to print lots of books and all it was was a really logical solution to there's one book and we want a hundred people to read it. So one person would stand at the front of the room and read the book in front of everybody else and that was a breakthrough at the time to have people have access to the literature.
We're a little beyond that at this point, but yet there's so many things where we still have the lecture at the pulpit, the front of a room with a group of people sitting around like that physical structure of the way we even organize our classrooms is a 400-plus-year-old relic, you know, and I think that during the pandemic, one of the things that I know for lots of kids, there's been a lot of challenges to maintaining standards of education and keeping things there. But there's also been one of my good friend's son. I think he's 10 or 11, he's performing better than he ever has, in this format, his way of being at home, he's showing up as a leader, he's wanting to contribute more. He like just took it on, whereas you put him in a regular classroom and he's one of those off the wall kids who won't sit still and doesn't pay attention. But in this format he's been thriving. She's never seen, he like gets himself up in the morning and like goes off to class. Cause he's all excited about getting on his Zoom calls.
Wendy Burkhard: Wow
Sarah Marshall, ND: And she's like, who is this kid? You know, so I think there's a, a kind of forced change in our structural format to it. That it's, it's gonna be interesting what comes out of that for everybody.
Wendy Burkhard: Yeah. Wow.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah.
Wendy Burkhard: Hmm.
Sarah Marshall, ND: So how about your journey?
Wendy Burkhard: My journey really started when my daughter's journey started, I mean, it was a, it was a place in time when I was just really looking more into how to eat healthier, how to be healthier. you know, it was, it was right around that timeframe, like 2009, when, you know, we started eating more organic, And implementing supplements and things like that.
But, but there was, you know, there was a point in my journey probably like five years ago where some blood work came back kind of abnormal. Looked like I was trying to fight off infection, which I know didn't have anything to my knowledge. but then again, we all have viruses and parasites and fungui and all kinds of stuff in us
Sarah Marshall, ND: More than we want to admit to, you know,
Wendy Burkhard: Yeah we live every day with that. But, you know, and it was. It was a little shocking to see the numbers at first, but then, you know, I just really, I just really got for myself to: what is the conversation that I'm having internally that can contribute to my blood boiling, for lack of a better word.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Really good.
Wendy Burkhard: So I looked at that and then, yeah I've been responsible for getting those numbers tracked every month and kind of like, you know, maintaining. And then I don't, I just didn't, you know, there is, medical terminology, in Western medicine that they assigned to this particular number in your white blood cells. And I just don't relate to it like I have this condition. So I relate to it like I can, you know, really clear this in my, at the cellular level, I'm going to start with the conversation I am about that or whatever the thing is that had me, You know, cover something up or hide something or not be in communication about something that would have my blood boiled.
So I've just been really responsible for, healing myself, kind of holistically. there's no, you know, drugs I'm taking, making sure, You know, I keep an eye on, like I said, the numbers and things like that, but I just, declared that, you know, this is something that I brought about somehow, you know, manifested it somehow and I can clear it.
So I look at other, other ways, other modalities to contribute to clearing it. And you know, we'll see where it goes, but it's not, it's not taking me down, it's not, you know, and I'm, and I'm fortunate and blessed to have this experience, you know, it's it's yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: One of the common themes that's come up.
And it's like, I noticed even my own resistance to being really public about saying this, but at the same time, it's one of my most core beliefs in being a healer and being a doctor and working with people through this process is the gift that the dis-eased state is bringing to you. It's like, there's this communication. Your body is expressing to you that when you get the communication, the symptoms will resolve or the numbers will resolve. And it's like, it's like a little part of us has gotten out of alignment or there's something suppressed or there's something withheld or there's something not yet expressed. You know, there's some people where they experienced and I can ask my clients and they'll tell me literally which camp they're in.
I'm like, do you feel like. Something happened and you shrunk, you became less of who you are, your not functioning fully. Right. And that's where this disease is coming from. Or do you feel like you've been going through life and you're having a wake up call right now? That's like bringing you forward to the next level of life.
It's like, it's like to get through this next growth period. What there is to do is like shed some skin to detoxify, to let go of things on another level and that dis-ease. The places where our body isn't functioning physiologically a hundred percent optimally can come from either one of those directions, you know?
And usually my immediately they're like, Oh yeah, there was a divorce. Or there was an incident or I lost a business. And when that happened, I just, I shrunk down into myself. I stopped living fully. I stopped taking care of myself. And then we work on that and we, we like opened them back up like a flower.
And then there's other people that are like, no things were like rocking. And then this thing happened and we start to look at it through the lens of like, it's like your universe, where your higher self has come down and tapped you on the shoulder and been like that way you've been living until now just isn't sufficient for who you are really, and where you're going next or what there is to be common. It's an, it's a, it's an up leveling, like we talked about with your daughter and that, that can be. In, in my experiences when we fully get the lesson, the communication, the thing that's there for us to uncover and discover it. That is when things start resolving.
Wendy Burkhard: Yeah. Makes sense. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Imagine if every, if all of humanity looked at their ailments and their diseases, from that perspective, what kind of planet we would live on?
Sarah Marshall, ND: One of my often unspoken taglines is that cancer is a gift and it's like, it pushes buttons, you know, and how much our language around disease is the war on it, fighting it, killing it off. And it's like, you're killing the angel that's the messenger. Now none of this is me standing over here saying people should suffer or you deserve it or any, it's not any of that.
It's not coming from the blame. It's literally like if you get to create a context around your experience... you know, like my sister went through, she was positive with COVID-19 early on as it was just coming up. And there was a lot of unknowns in about halfway through of four weeks with fever, super intense body aches, we started to discover that it was like the virus was going in and uprooting held places in her body that she'd had trauma. She literally got run over by a horse at one point. She'd had a history of so many problems and it was like, her chest went nuts, hurt her knee got really intense. And we started to reshift it of like, Not that there was damage being done, but there, there was damage being liberated that it was like, the virus was like going in and cleaning these things out and allowing her to process and fully release it.
We just create it like, I dunno, why not make something up? We're like at the end of this, you're just not going to be the same human being. Like you will have resolved things. We're going to use this fever as an opportunity to release and let go, and be done with a bunch of stuff from your past. I don't know, but why not?
Wendy Burkhard: Yeah exactly!
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah.
Wendy Burkhard: Very empowering. I mean that's and not everybody creates a context, so yeah, it's, it's all choice. I mean, fundamentally it all comes down to, It's all choice.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And I think, I mean, this episode in particular is an opportunity for some people who maybe have never even considered that, that just didn't, you know, it's like, it's not, it's not in our inherited conversations. It's not in our everyday wheelhouse, which is a lot of what Heal is all about, you know?
And in particularly in this now what I call cause I made it up and I get to make it up, season two of Heal, you know is I started to look at now what's the conversation to have. And I, and the thing that's been present for me is, is saying the unsaid, you know, being willing to start to have the conversations that aren't commonly had, like recontextualizing your daughter's experience and reconnect will not hurt experience, but your experience of your daughter and what's possible around... maybe the seizures aren't even a problem. Maybe that's actually her process of development. And it's just what it looks like for her.
Wendy Burkhard: Yeah. Not
Sarah Marshall, ND: a common conversation.
Wendy Burkhard: No. Yeah. Well, hopefully then the listeners that are out there that haven't discovered this conversation before, until now, see something in themselves.
That's exciting. (laughs)
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, exactly. So like as, as a mama of a super special kid, you know, what are some things you would want to share with other parents that are confronting these kinds of circumstances?
Wendy Burkhard: Well, I will say for sure, get connected to a group, you know, that's that's by far been, it was a missing in the beginning for me, but then when I found the group.
Could be a local Facebook group. I mean, there's so many right. But get plugged into other parents, in a conversation just to bounce things off of, to be heard. That's first and foremost. And then, I think really, I dunno if you could wrap your head around the concept of Like listening to your, to your child, even when they're not saying anything and just sort of being, like you, being the space of.
Like, I don't know how to describe it. The, you being the foundation for sort of this clearing of healing, you know, like there's a, like, there's a confidence in a posture. That you could create to empower yourself. in taking care of a child that has extra extra needs. You know, there's a place you could come to where if you can, if you can find that place and there's peace of mind there, knowing that You know, your child came through you to you in this lifetime, in this world right now, for a reason. You're the one; don't make it wrong. (laughs) It is like, they're whole complete and perfect.
And you love them where they're at and, you know, and, and express gratitude every night, you know, there's, I just, I'm not a big journaler. Around write a lot of things down. I just. One thing I'm grateful for every night and I write it down what that one thing. And a lot of times, if it is something about my daughter, usually nine times out of 10, it's usually something about, about her that I'm grateful for.
So, that would be my, that would be my advice or my contribution.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Awesome.
This is going to be a terrible question for you to answer, but I'm gonna ask it anyways. What would you say the biggest thing, the biggest lesson you've gotten from being her mom for you?
Wendy Burkhard: It's a lesson that keeps (laughing) lesson that keeps on.... what's the word? A thing I deal with a lot is, is it's slow down. You know, I'm not, I'm a mover and a shaker and I go, go go. Now, the good thing is, is my daughter likes to go, go, go too. She like loves to be in the car and go here and go there, which has been kind of hard, right now. but really slow down and, you know, not be so just not be so rushed. Yeah it takes something for me to just to slow down and look at the, the gift that this quarantine has been, right?
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah.
Wendy Burkhard: We have slowed down, and there's this urge you know being at home. Get this done, get this done. Let's do that. You know, so, but I have, I have, I have slowed down and, because what it allows for what it opens up is an opportunity to be present in the moment.
I mean, what we couldn't ask for more of an opportunity than right now to be present in the moment. Cause it's in the moments. Those are the moments of our life. You know, we blink and that moment is in the past. I mean, look how quickly that moment is gone. (laughs)
Sarah Marshall, ND: My experience is like, it's been, there's been a lot more richness and it's really just cause I'm like actually being present for it.
I'm hanging out in those moments. I'm letting them linger. Little slower in the morning and any it's interesting. Cause like, technically my life has actually gotten a lot more full than it was like I've had a virtual practice for nine years, so that didn't alter at all. And my expertise has been in higher demand.
And then, Oh, by the way, coincidentally, I had spent the last year planning to launch this project right at the midst of it all, you know, so, but yet even still the not jumping on an airplane. You know, every fourth weekend for a conference or an event and not in, there's just been this, like not needing to cram it all in has made a huge difference for me.
And I had a funny observation that I think I'm definitely holding on to, to apply out to all of life. I noticed how happy I was in the first couple of weeks of quarantine. And I'm like, I mean, not about the state of world, but like personally in my day to day life, there was a level of happiness I hadn't had.
And it was like, I stopped making my life wrong. I literally just like, there was nothing wrong with me being home alone on a Saturday night, watching Netflix anymore. I was like, yeah, that's what I'm doing. And I just, literally, it became about what things today are going to fill my life with pleasure. And it's all like right here inside my house.
I mean, my relationship with my dog has altered. We literally are like getting on like so well, he's like, it's like, I feel so close to him. And he was driving me nuts this winter. And the main reason is because I wasn't giving him enough attention. I just wasn't paying attention to him. And he's, you know, a 2-year-old puppy and he's 80 pounds and he does all of that. And it was like, it's, I, I, it feels magical. Like, I don't really know, but actually if I look, I know exactly what happened, like he's just gotten more of my attention and more of my energy has poured into him and he's like, totally chill now. It's like, it's great alteration.
Wendy Burkhard: Yeah. More of your love.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yep. There's been more space for that.
So, you know, we're in this circumstance, that's granting us a lot opportunities of self discovery and experiencing things we maybe wouldn't have experienced otherwise. And then I'm already feeling a tug towards. Okay. What does it look like to maintain that?
Wendy Burkhard: Yeah. Yeah. Love it.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Well, I really appreciate you taking the time this morning and you know, there's a lot of richness in just one of your sentences, so I'm glad we're going to let people mull this around, cause it's, it's a big one and I thank you for just being there for us to dive right into it.
Wendy Burkhard: Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. Thank you for what you do and what you provide and your listening in the world. And, yeah, I look forward to hearing more.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Aha. See where it goes.
yeah, absolutely.
Great.
Wendy Burkhard: Thank you.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Alright, we're going to sign off. See ya next time.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Thanks to today's guest, Wendy Burkhard for her clarity and wisdom. For a full transcript and all the resources from today's show, visit SarahMarshallND.com/podcast. You can learn more about finding your own healing journey by going to SarahMarshallND.com or following me on Instagram at @SarahMarshallND. Thanks to our music composer, Roddy Nikpour and our editor Kendra Vicken. We'll see you next time.