Dr. Tanda Cook, ND on Being Your Self
On today's episode, Dr. Tanda Cook, my longtime friend, fellow naturopath and coauthor of our cookbook "Food that Grows" and I go deep into the root cause of dis-ease. And illuminate how living our dream life is the access to the ultimate healing modality: being yourself.
Referenced in the Show
Dr. Cook’s Bio
Tanda Cook, is a naturopathic physician, food expert, published author, international speaker, blogger, as well as a health and lifestyle coach. She is wildly passionate about educating and inspiring people to take steps to add health to their lives.
Tanda has a gift for explaining confusing medical terminology and concepts in clearly understood terms - empowering her audiences to celebrate healthy living through food, lifestyle and choice.
Tanda received her undergraduate degree from Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs, New York and then went on to receive her doctorate from the National College of Natural Medicine in Portland, Oregon.
After moving to Bozeman, Montana Tanda discovered her true passion is connecting people to the earth, food, and their purpose through farming, sustainable agriculture, and natural medicine.
Today, clients from all over North America seek her out for counseling and retreats to experience the earth and their health in a transformed way.
Tanda has been traveling and speaking internationally over the past five years teaching on the subjects of health, food, nutrition, entrepreneurialism, and finding the life you love.
Her presentations are fun, energetic, engaging, humorous and educational.
Her co-authored cookbook, Food That Grows, explores the importance of eating whole foods, the current issues with how Westerners eat, and the stories and celebrations around the very thing that keeps us alive…food.
Practicing what she preaches, Tanda lives on a smallholding just outside of Bozeman, Montana along the Gallatin River. There she grows and raises much of her own food. She has gardens, chickens, turkeys, goats, cows and ducks, along with two dogs and five horses.
Connect with Dr. Cook: website | Instagram | Facebook
Full Transcript
Sarah Marshall ND: Welcome to HEAL. On today's episode, Dr. Tanda Cook, my longtime friend, fellow naturopath and coauthor of our cookbook "Food that Grows" and I go deep into the root cause of dis-ease. And illuminate how living our dream life is the access to the ultimate healing modality: being yourself. I'm your host, Dr. Sarah Marshall.
(Music)
Tanda cook, what have you discovered about healing?
Tanda Cook: So I actually been thinking a lot about this question since I was listening to a podcast that you did with another dear colleague of ours.
And I feel like, you know, I just turned 40 this year and we go through the stages of understanding healing. Like I was thinking, you know, when you're five and you fall down on the pavement and you scrape your knee and your mom kisses it and says, it's going to get better. It's like, there's that level of healing.
And then, you know, you go through your teenage years and you have your first heartbreak and there's that level of healing. And then, you know, you and I going through medical school and discovering that, you know, then we get so hyper focused on, you know, clinical, physical diagnosis and, and healing the physical body and spending, you know, four years and even more of diving into, you know, really hyper focusing on, you know, w lab interpretations, which are super important.
And, You know what you can see on a, x-ray and a CT scan and what you can physically see on somebody in diagnosing to help them heal abiding by nature's laws with naturopathic medicine, and then, you know, 10 years into practice and my own life and my own journey with my healing process and discovering that it's so much more than all of that, that it's, it is on every level. It's, it's physically like your knee it's emotionally like your heart, but then it's spiritually. It's cosmically. It's... and, I think for me, the definition of true healing is helping myself, which I've noticed, especially over the past two years, and helping my patients fall into alignment.
And what does that mean? You know, what does alignment mean? It means do you love where you live? Do you love the food that you eat? Is it working for your body? You know, a lot of people love eating sugar, but it doesn't necessarily work for their body. Right. So, you know, as are the food choices really working for you, is your environment working for you?
Do you love your relationships? Both with partner and you know, siblings, if you have them parents, if they're still alive.
Sarah Marshall ND: Children
Tanda Cook: children's yeah. Support groups, church groups, or whatever you're in. Do you feel supported and surrounded by people that kind of get you and, and then do you love your j-o-b?
You know, if you're, if you do work, like what is your purpose? What is that life thing that's on your heart? And I feel like with the amount of people that you and I both have coached over the past, you know, multiple, you know, 15, 10, 15 years. Disease dis-ease, unhealing will only show up when one or all of those things are out of alignment.
Yeah. And the analogy that I'll tell my patients is that, you know, if you hate your job, it's kind of like a cheese grater to your soul. Right. (Sarah laughs)
Sarah Marshall ND: That's poignant and graphic and accurate. (inaudible)
Tanda Cook: Yeah. And you know, people like ouch, like, aye, I, I, they kind of get that, you know, and can they quit their job tomorrow? No, not necessarily, but can we plant the seed in terms of....even if it's creating a different relationship with their job or different relationship with their spouse or different relationship with their environment, you know, if you put me on a beach, I last about 10 days and I'm like, all right, good to go. And you put me on a farm or in the mountains or on water.
I'm so happy and not saltwater, but it's, it's being brave enough to look.
and then when you see it, it's being courageous enough to go there and to give yourself permission to move or quit your job, or get a husbandectomy, or a friendectomy, or, you know, I, I always, I'm now again, 10 years into practice. And I, I tell my patients when they fill out my application, I say, you know, I, I do have to have a caveat here that most of the people that work with me, you know, inevitably ended up staying with me for several years and most likely will either end up moving, divorcing, (Sarah: changing careers!) finding careers and eating different food and they kind of laugh and giggle. And then inevitably, I'm going to have this one patient that did all, all of those things and she's the happiest she's ever been.
And she's 50. Yeah. So, you know, to heal it is it's all of those layers and honestly, it's, it's being brave enough and courageous enough, and having the people around you that can see it and love you enough to hold you accountable to it.
Sarah Marshall ND: Right? Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I talk about it, like it's, you know, you can either make your body really wrong for being sick or having the, you know, and, and the way that we were finally, even in conventional medicine, willing to take a hard cold look that.
Childhood traumas and life stress experiences of unhealthy relationships. And it doesn't even mean the person you're in a relationship is unhealthy. It's the relationship that doesn't work. The two, you could have two extraordinary people that have no business being married, you know, and that's, that's, you know, that's a whole new way of looking at it too, but like relationship stress.
And like you said, environment and job and all of that. And then, you know, one that has been coming up as a theme and some people in my life is like, well, yeah, that's great if I had the money. Where we let our financial circumstances also determine what is and isn't impossible in our life, you know, which I often dig into and find that's a lot of inherited conversations.
That's like, You know, you can have two people that make the exact same amount of money and one will have it be an absolute impossibility to do anything with their life. And the other one is like, this is awesome. I can do anything I want, like, it's not, it's not actually the amount of money, but that we can either make our bodies wrong for being sick or I often propose like looking at it as this is your body's way of talking to you. And it's your soul getting you back in alignment with who you really are. And the people that I've done a lot of physical work with, we did the diet changes. We do the homeopathy, we work on the detoxification and nutrition.
If they won't eventually go to those places of rearranging their life, then I find we hit a plateau physically. Like there's just stuff that I can't get at resolving without them being willing to have that bravery and that courageousness. And there's no timeline, it's up to each person, right? Like I'm not going anywhere.
You can take 10 years doing this if you want.
Tanda Cook: Absolutely. And you know, we're not attached to the results by any means. It's you know, if somebody says that they want to heal, I want to hold them accountable to that. You know, I tell my patients, there is no vitamin for, you know, hating your job. There's no nutrient, there's no supplement I can throw at you for hating your house. Like yeah. I can't supplement that. I can help and I can hold it at Bay. But if you truly want the shift that people say that they do, you know, it's, it's that face the fear and do it anyway, you know, and I think a lot of people bump up against that fear. And then what is more comfortable is being uncomfortable.
Sarah Marshall ND: Right.
Tanda Cook: And, and that there's a lot of fear and uncomfortable and being uncomfortable. It's like, why would you choose when you bump up against that fear? Not only is there the unknown and you're uncomfortable but then it's the uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. So a last bite it's so challenging for people to actually do the things.
And I, I acknowledge that and, you know, and I, I, I also, I really try to be, not try; I'm dedicated to my own healing. And so bumping up against my own uncomfortness and, you know, I, I did a post the other day on Instagram that said, you know, if you cut me open, farmer falls out and it's taken me 40 years to finally follow that dream.
And you know, I remember you and I sitting when we were
Sarah Marshall ND: my gosh,
Tanda Cook: you know, wee, wee tiny (Sarah laughs)
Sarah Marshall ND: Baby Doctors. (Tanda: exactly) Baby, baby doctors
Tanda Cook: And, you know, as sitting in a room and I couldn't even say that I wanted to be a farmer and here, I just spent all these years of medical school and all this money and medical school and, and you know, what I'm, what I'm starting to do now is really seeing the drawing, the parallel for people, that to heal our bodies is so similar in terms of healing the earth. And, and so, you know, I moved to Tennessee, I just bought a 40-acre farm here where I'm dedicated to raising animals and plants, but being a manager of the earth, you know, I'm, I'm. I want to be a steward of it. Like I want to learn what it takes to heal. I mean, the property I bought's sick, you know, it needs to heal, right?
It is... it has lacked
Sarah Marshall ND: yeah, as much of our farm land is. Tons of it is.
Tanda Cook: Yeah. It's depleted like we are, you know, it's, you equate it to somebody with cancer. It's low in minerals. It's has, you know, no microbiome, it, it, you know, it's gut is off. Like the dirt is concrete and so. You know, drawing all those parallels for people too.
And, I want to be an example of what it takes to live courageously and be brave and do things that are outside of my comfort zone and, and, you know, do I get it perfect every time? Absolutely not. But is my, you know, uprooting my life, you know, I was in Montana and, and. It's been so interesting to watch my body once I finally gave myself permission to fall in love with who I am, which is like I said, if you cut me open and a farmer falls out and I had to swim a lot of upstream. I don't wanna say battles, but a lot of sort of upstream conflicts to get here. And in being here, you know, somebody with a history of an eating disorder, chronic anxiety, panic attacks, IBS, eczema, the migraines and, you know, nightmares, you know, that's all in my history and Sarah, I haven't, you know, I haven't told you this, but I'm not kidding you. When I stepped onto that farm, it all stopped. And I've been treated by one of the best naturopaths in the country for the past 15 years. That's when I say you can't supplement unhappiness, so you know, and I'm an eating, breathing, sleeping example of this, like it's. So it's, it's kind of cool to bring that into my conversations with my patients in terms of, you know, giving them permission to, to have those conversations, whether or not they act on, you know, the move or.
The different life or rearranging their life, as you said, you know, whether they act on that it's least planting the seed and giving them permission to even think that way.
Sarah Marshall ND: Right. Yeah. You know, and, good news, bad news. We're never done.
Tanda Cook: Yeah.
Right.
Sarah Marshall ND: I mean, cause I, I look back at my history, you know, I want to actually highlight that conversation.
So like for the listeners, you know, you and I. We met day one orientation at naturopathic medical school 15 years ago.
Tanda Cook: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: this month, which is wild and. You know, for eight years we ate, slept and breathed each other through school. And then the first four years of business and being, you know, two of those years, we were in practice together, you know, Tanda Cook is the coauthor of "Food that Grows."
And, you know, I actually just was rereading part of it with my guy. And, it's hilarious. Oh, my God. I also found some mistakes that I didn't even know were in there. And I'm like, ha ha ha. Oh, well maybe we'll write a second edition. Maybe not. (Both laugh) It's mostly awesome, I mean it is but you know
Holy crap, don't put a whole tablespoon of salt in the gourmet burgers.
It's too salty. Um anyways. (Tanda laughs)
And I was like, he's like really it called for a tablespoon. And I was like, no way, you probably read that wrong. It's a teaspoon. And I looked back, I'm like, nope, that totally says tablespoon. And I'm like, yep, that's totally too salty. It was really funny.
Tanda Cook: People are sodium deficient anyways.
Sarah Marshall ND: That's fine. It's good for your adrenals. You need it. But like I remember the pivotal conversation, right? When we hired our first business coach, Leslie Cunningham. And, you know, she actually will likely be a guest on the show. I've already talked to her. And like, she challenged both of us to have this conversation about our careers for the first time.
Like if we, you know, she put it differently, but if we sliced ourselves open, what would fall out and I do recall, you know, we were only. Whatever (Tanda: 18 months) 18 months into practice, like $65,000 invested into a practice, plus our education, brand new in a 18 month old business. And you and I both had to confront that what we had just built, neither one of us wanted. (Tanda: Right)
Neither one of us wanted to come to that office every single day. I wanted to travel the world. You wanted to go build a farm. Right? And it was like, and so I think about that first leap. You know, for me leaving conventional confines of a private practice in a building face-to-face consults and being willing to venture out into telemedicine, which, you know, nine years ago was a four letter word.
Now everybody's asking me how I do it, but, you know, and that was one leap for me. And I moved to Arizona with $5,000 in my bank account and maxed out credit cards and a whole new business model. And I just, I think they didn't even ask me for a credit report because I had doctor in front of my name. (laughs)
You know and that was an amazing leap then. And then I made another leap when I moved back to the mountains three years ago. You know, and, and it was inside a conversation where I had this... I was literally driving across the country and I had this epiphany that I was waiting to give myself my dream life, when I met a partner. And I've spent most of the last 12 years of my life single.
And, you know, there was no partner like that showing up. And I was just like, and so it was this epiphany of like, I can give myself my own dream life and that became a theme for a while is like, if I was living my dream life, what would I do? Where would I go? I didn't do everything that came up, but one of them was moved back to the mountains and I've done that.
And ironically, I'm on the eve of another jump. I it's, it's not, I can feel the. De disillusion, right? Like I know we use this analogy a lot, but the caterpillar becoming a butterfly and my mother literally has been raising caterpillars and butterflies in her living room for the last two summers. So I've seen this process up close and personal and like it's insane.
When the caterpillar turns into a chrysalis, first of all, it does not take very long. I mean, it is like you watch it happen. It's minutes, there's a Caterpillar there. And then five minutes later, there is this green squishy thing hanging from a leaf. And then you realize that like the damn caterpillar is literally dissolving into goop.
Yeah. And that's where I'm at right now. I'm in the goop stage. So I don't know what's going to happen next or what it's going to be, but it's getting goopy and I'm losing, bearing on things that were solid before. And it isn't, it's disorienting and it's a little terrifying. And to me that is healing, healing, transformation, whatever you want to, whatever word you want to say that it's all the same game.
Tanda Cook: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, when people often, I think, you know, want things concrete, right? They, they want it to be food. They want itt to be sleep. They want it to be, you know, if they just changed their diet or if they just stop eating sugar, if they just moved their body or if they just drink more water, if they just, which all of those things are incredibly important.
And yet, why is it that when people do eat more of an ancestral diet, which I'm a huge fan of, you know, when people say, you know, what do you eat? And if you're going to put me in a box, it's paleo, right? It's now I eat very close to the earth and you know, I moved my body every day. And, but I, you know, I'm doing this in Montana. I'm moving my body every day. Eating close to the earth. And I raise my own food, both animals and plants, and I'm out in the sunshine and I do deep breathing and I'm meditating and I'm still having IBS and IBD and eczema and migraines. And so where's the hiccup,
Sarah Marshall ND: right?
Tanda Cook: What, so what was my body saying?
And my body was screaming at me that I was in the wrong environment.
Sarah Marshall ND: There's what I've discovered clinically is like, there's, there's there's processes to go through. Like, there are some people that come to me that really, they they're so deficient or they're so toxic that like, like in their bodies that we just got to deal with the physical first, but then it will only go so far.
Right? Like, like it's not that you shouldn't. Eat ancestral or do meditation or do all those things like that can make a huge difference. But then there's also then what, then what? And like our mentor, Dr. Tom has said this in his stuff, which is like the further you go, the deeper you go, the less likely it's going to be a diet that's the solution. There's points in time when the diet is a massive change. And I think that's part of why I created this podcast is. You want to go learn about paleo and ancestral diets and, and meditation and fasting and intermittent fasting and using cold plunge therapy.
There are thousands of podcasts out there on all of those things. And then what's cool though, is a lot of my mentors who started there, their podcasts have also their books have evolved to, okay. Now what? Then what's, you know, and that's where psychedelic plant medicine and MTMA therapy and ketamine therapy for depression and PTSD.
And. Like, we're looking for this next edge. Like how do we get even more in alignment with who we are as loving spiritual human beings?
Tanda Cook: Yeah. Which is exactly why I found a farm. And I think for me, and I think a lot of humans that don't know it yet, sticking your hand in the dirt and watching something grow or having your hand on, you know, slaughtering an animal, if you choose to eat me, which I do, but if I'm going to choose to eat meat, I want to know how it was raised. I want to know how it was harvested. I want to have a hand on that and because there is nothing, in my opinion that I've experienced and there's all sorts of ways to experience this sort of connected connectiveness and connectivity to us and, you know, mother nature, but it's to it's to raise harvest and cook food off the land. And, and again, for me, you know, a lot, some people will it's, you know, other ways of, of finding that sort of, it sounds super cheesy, but it's like finding that oneness, like when do you feel in alignment? When do you feel joy? When do you feel like you can breathe deeper than you ever have?
And follow those things. I mean, you know, a dear friend of mine, I love this phrase, she would say, follow the sparkles, all the things in your life that do make you happy. And this isn't about like rainbows and unicorns and Sherbert and ice cream. It's like we have all those things are great, but you know, this is, this is the reality that life will happen at you and so what can you do on a daily basis that will add health? Every second of every day, we have a choice to either add health to our life or subtract it. And most of us are subtracting from a bank account that's already empty.
Sarah Marshall ND: What I've witnessed in you and just like, I'm constantly in awe of who you are in the planet is like, where you have been willing to walk that line of bravery and courage and keep pushing the, where is my joy? Where's my edge? Where's the thing in life. I want to go explore and experience? You know, and also watching you wow. My interpretation. Right? You can tell me what it's like for you on the inside, you know, is healing your relationship to yourself. Cause I think that's, you know, at one level like absolutely finding your joy and the things that light us up and like that's, but what I've discovered is what it's really been is like the deeper I go and the further along, Oh, look, that was my doorbell.
Hey guess what? That's actually my CSA being delivered. That is my community supported (Tanda: Ohh!) agriculture vegetables that get delivered to my door every day on Friday. So ding dong. I have veggies from the earth that my fellow farmers raised. Cause I am less farmer. although COVID has brought me in touch with, like way more digging in the dirt and putting plants in the ground.
And I actually have found, I've gotten really excited about, herbs more than vegetables. I planted a whole bunch of (inaudible) this year and it's been really fun.
Tanda Cook: That's awesome.
Sarah Marshall ND: So, It's been that it's been like the deeper layers have come up about, and even like, you know, I think that, yeah, the, you know, this is, this is out in episode 13 of finishing up season two, was, you know, me sharing about having chronic fatigue syndrome now 15 years into my, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, you've gotta be kidding me. Like the irony of the naturopath, getting this is like unbelievable. But like when I look at it, it's really my body demanding, demanding that I live true to myself and I have some pretty solid genes, not really brain patterns about being a workaholic.
And when in doubt I'd work, and I even love my work. It does bring me joy, but there has been a lack of relationship and community balance. I, you know, didn't choose to have kids. And like I said, I've been single a lot of the last decade of my life. And that's had me in this place of like, well, I don't have a husband and kids to distract me, so I'll just work.
I'll just work. I'll just work. I'll just work. I'll just work. I'll just work. And my body's like, uh-uh, like, no, I get four to five hours a day right now of work. And I was consistently at 12 hour a day, and now I'm like, huh. And it's like, you could color,
I'm okay if you start doing artwork or listening to music or, and I'm like, God, you know, it's literally, my body is pushing me towards these other areas of developing and it's requiring me to take a whole nother look at...I'm not interested in lowering my lifestyle or decreasing what's possible in my business. So I got to reformat, how do I reach people and what are my vehicles? And my body's my giant teacher doing it right now. And it's all been digging up these places of like, do I deserve it has been the big conversation and conceptually I'm like, of course I deserve it.
Yeah. But deep down in my gut and in my heart, that's what's coming up is no, you got to keep working harder and prove yourself. Cause you're not there yet.
Tanda Cook: Yeah. And, you know, I think too, the analogy that I use with my patients is, you know, the central nervous system we're so what most Americans are hardwired to be sympathetic dominant.
Right. And so the image that I I'll explain to my patients is, you know, if you might take your brain and your spinal cord and you run a blue cord, and a red cord and it comes, starts in your brain and goes all the way out your spinal cord to your tailbone. Most of us, most of the time should be plugged into that blue cord, which is that parasympathetic response.
It's that rest and digest and heal and restore and repair and connect and ground and breathe. And that's where we should. And I'm going to should on you. Be living. And then when you see a tiger, your body unplugs, that blue wire plugs it into the red wire and goes, Holy docs like, there's a tiger or we're going to die.
And it shifts all hormones, all blood sugar, all fat storage, all every immune system, everything gets shunted and, and disrupted so that you can survive that tiger. Assuming that you're only going to be running for like three hours. But the problem is that so many of us (inaudible)
Sarah Marshall ND: you mean the last, cause you know, and then I even try and do the thing where I'm like, yeah, it's been really stressful since COVID hit will, but then before that, and then before that, and then the eight years before that, and then the four years of med school and I'm like, there is it's it's, it's been that way, my life forever.
And it's so normal. I didn't. I thought I was slowing down this last year. It felt like less. (Tanda: right) And it was still not even close.
Tanda Cook: But the problem is doing less. Doesn't even come close to beginning to unplug that wire.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Tanda Cook: And so that's when people say, Oh, you know, I need to distress my life. I'm like, well, how does that feel?
Stressful probably. Yeah. You know, or I need to slow down. Well, how does that feel? It feels stressful. Why? Because the only way that you can perceive your, you wake up and if you're laying in bed, watching Netflix, your body is still thinks they're tigers right around the corner. Yeah. And so until, you know, and I tell my patients, you gotta do the due to unwire this and to rewire into the blue.
And it takes, I mean, I'm going to say years because you said it, I mean, we're, we're basically, it's like, Oh, COVID's been so stressful. Well then before that, you know, I got divorced. And then before that I moved and then before that I, you know, lost a sibling. And then before, I mean, it's like, where do you stop?
Where, where did the body ever get reminded that it's okay to, to rest and digest and heal and repair and restore? And so, you know what, now, when you, like the proverbial you, sits down to quote unquote, you know, take things slower. Your body is still plugged into that red wire, still running on cortisol, still screwing up their hormonal system still, still, still.
And so how do you do that? And, you know, that's sort of the, what are the age old questions? How do I lose weight and how do I undo that wire? It's like, if I had a dollar for every time I got those two questions. That you know, it's it is the daily do. I mean, it sounds silly. It sounds simple. And it sounds a little like these things should be like brushing your teeth when people say, say to me, Oh, well, I'm not that disciplined.
I say, well, do you brush your teeth? They said, well, yeah, of course I brush my teeth. I go, then you're disciplined. So it's meditation. It's deep breathing. Even when you, it's pain, I am a terrible breather. It pains me to breathe. Like do to consciously debrief is painful. I've gotten better at it because I've really picked up a pretty strong meditation practice.
So it's meditation, whether it's three minutes or 30 minutes, I don't care. Every single day. And it's drinking half your body weight in ounces of water. It's moving your body every day. We were designed to move and we weren't designed to like binge and binge on movement. Like get up at 5:00 AM and go to the gym for three hours.
And then you sit all day long
Sarah Marshall ND: you're literally just contracting with tigers, you know?
Tanda Cook: Correct? Correct.
So walking is actually the number one movement associated with longevity.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Tanda Cook: And so I tell my patients like, go for a walk at lunch. You don't need to like kill yourself and sweat and get your heart rate up. But yeah, cardio is great, but many of us can't handle it because of how that, how we're wired.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah. And when you are ready or sympathetic dominant, you know, then when you add exercise to that, you're just pouring gasoline on a fire. It's like, you know, and, and a lot of my clients that are in that really depleted state, they actually quote unquote, feel better when they exercise like that. But just because it's like false energy, it might as well be a cup of caffeine.
It might as well be speed, you know, it's like, but, but that you just drain and drain and drain and drain off of it, you know? And, and I, you know, I'm in that reprogramming right now and looking at like, there's been an element where I have needed to literally cut the quantity of stuff I was doing in my life initially, but what I realized is I'm, I am shifting to doing different things. Like it's not 12 and 16 hours a day of spreadsheets, work, phone calls, coaching calls, supplement orders, whatever. It's like five or six hours of that. And then deck flowers and, and it's crazy. I resist watering my plants in the morning.
Literally, like, I don't want to do it. I actually would rather sit down and scroll through 150 emails in my inbox and sort and handle them. It's like, I mean, that's where I'm at at this moment. And I'm like, and, and thank God, they actually are annuals and they require daily water. So they'll die if I don't do it. So literally I'm like fine. (both laugh) And it's like the best ther-- is like somebody got me therapy plants, you know? And I'm like,
Tanda Cook: I love it.
Sarah Marshall ND: But it's crazy to watch like, really you don't want to take 10 minutes to watch water dribble on beautiful flowers standing outside on your deck? Like, because one of the things I've noticed is in the initial stages of shifting all the unresolved nervous tension slash grief slash unprocessed pain slash unresolved disappointments are what are lurking in the shadows when I slow down.
Tanda Cook: Correct.
Sarah Marshall ND: And yeah, that part lalalalala doing it, but ugh
Tanda Cook: yeah, and I mean, that's a lot of what I've discovered too, over the past two years is what happens when you actually do get quiet? You know, I've been reading a lot of these, you know, books like "Untamed" by Glennon Doyle, and you know, it's just, there's like these badassery women and you read about these, they just slice themselves open and then just filet themselves out and talk about the blood, sweat, and tears of being a female and being vulnerable and finally being able to sit with myself and be quiet, I realized for so many years I wasn't doing that because I was absolutely terrified of what I was going to hear. And. I was talking to Dr. Tom, our mentor the other day. And he said, Tanda when you know, the nervous system is the slowest system to heals the hardest system to heal. And I've abused the crap out of mine for 40 years. And he said when during the day do you do nothing? And I said, what do you mean nothing? It was kind of like, I'm sorry, you're speaking Greek. (both laugh) What do you mean nothing?
Sarah Marshall ND: How does one do nothing (laughs)
Tanda Cook: Right! Yes! Do elaborate dear friend. How do you do nothing?
So he said, when do you literally sit and watch the grass go? I said, Oh, I'll tell you. So I went through my day and it's. You know, my feet hit the ground at six and I, you know, have a million animals, so it's chores and then it's tea time. And then it's writing content for blogs and then it's patient calls and then it's minutes and edits and edits and edits.
And then it's more chores and more animals and riding horses and clean scooping poop and making dinner. And then, then I turned my phone off and I sit and I watched the fireflies come out and I said, is that what you mean by doing nothing? He said, yes. And I've only allowed myself to do that for the past two months.
I'm 40.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Tanda Cook: How? What's wrong with me? (Laughs)
Sarah Marshall ND: You know, and I can hear people's objections of like, yeah, but we've been farmers and we used to blahty-blahty-blah. Well, okay. Here's, here's the reality check guys. And I'm not, I'm an anthropologist and I don't have all the exact dates down. So forgive me. I'm going to say it wrong, but more or less human beings, homosapiens, you know, we got a good million-something years of evolution. And then somewhere around 65,000 years ago, we kind of became the current iteration of what we are today. (Tanda: mhm) And it was only 10,000 years ago in only some places on the planet we even began agriculture. (Tanda: right) For most of our historical heritage, it was, you know, two or 3000 years ago that when the whole planet actually was participating in agriculture, and there's a really brilliant book, I've read multiple times called "Sapiens", and we'll make sure that with the Glennon Doyle Booker in the show notes and in sapiens, it's literally a brief history of humankind.
He walks through the whole thing and he actually talks about how the agrarian revolution did produce more food and there was wealth increase as a whole, but for 90% of all human beings, homosapiens, life, the, the level of like happiness, joy, health, and ease in life, went down when we started farming. For the majority of human beings, they were sicker, worked harder, had less nutrition and were more depleted and we can see it in the bone structure and the way that we literally look at the remnants. It was only for a select group of human beings who started to control other human beings and the advent of empires. (Tanda: mhm)
And even their lives it's questionable, whether or not they were really better. (Tanda: yeah) And so it was actually, there's been a downward trend more or less over the last five to 10,000 years where, well, lots of things have expanded and we have more of things. There's a big question mark if life has gotten better for human beings.
And I remember reading in, I think it's Robb Wolf's book, "The Paleo Solution," one of the books on paleo nutrition. He went and talked to some anthropologists and they basically said before the agrarian revolution, when we were hunter-gatherers, we only really worked 15 hours a week. To do what we needed to do to hunt and get the calories we needed.
It was about 15 hours a week. And the rest of the time we sat around, told stories, napped and gambled. Apparently gambling has been around really long time.
So, you know, (both laugh)
we like played games though. We story told we played games and we sat around a fire and we, and if you look at other species like your cat, your dog, They sleep a lot of the day and yeah.
Yes, like cows and chickens and some of the other animals that have different digestive tracks and they have to consume more physically large amounts of food during their day to, you know, but they kind of saunter and wander and munch and crunch and wander and munch and crunch. I mean, what would it be like if we wandered the sauntered for an entire day? (Tanda: mhm)
Tanda Cook: Yeah, our bodies would be way happier can tell you that our minds might not be, but (both laugh)
yeah, it's, you know, again, the, the farm for me is just it's, it's a constant reminder of slowing down and I just really don't like that term. We need to come up with something else. It's like, you know, cause I'm going to tell my patients to slow down or distress.
It just sounds stressful. I'm not telling anybody like that's like chew your food. That's a good way of slowing down, like chew your food 31 times, I challenge all y'all to do that.
Sarah Marshall ND: A hundred deep breaths a day. That'll give you several moments of pause.
Tanda Cook: Yes. It started with 10 deep breaths a day. And chewing your food, putting your fork and knife down in between each bites and you know, those kinds of, kind of, they seem silly, but they add up. Just like the tiny little stressors, like, Oh, you know, you almost got into a fender bender and then, you know, a guy flipped you off and then you didn't get the coffee flavor that you wanted. And then, you know, you couldn't find your phone for two seconds and then you lost your keys.
All of those things may seem sort of small, but they add up. Yeah. Yeah. And so again, it's like we can focus our days on all of the little things that add health or all the little things that take health away. And sometimes you have, and I'm gonna have to on you, have to do things that are uncomfortable to make big leaps, to uncocoon yourself.
Like when you are ready to fly, when you, Sarah, when you get out of the mushy stage, the goop, goopy stage what did we call it? You can do things like meditation every day, all the way to quitting your job, getting a divorce, moving across the country, getting that animal that you've always wanted. Getting that golden doodle that is just makes you smile every time you see one, but your family's told you that you can't and you finally do.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Tanda Cook: Those big things can make a huge difference. And then the little things make a huge difference.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Tanda Cook: And you know, again, it's just like a big car accident or a big. Surgery makes a huge difference. And I think, you know, because of our negativity bias as humans, we sort of have this borderline addiction to collecting evidence about how much our life isn't working (Sarah: oh yeah) and how hard, how hard things are and how our health sucks and how, you know, you can't put the ice cream down and, and the bottom line is.
Sarah Marshall ND: It's status, you know? There's a lot of status in the suffering.
Tanda Cook: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: And you know, I've actually had somebody recently say to me and I do get this. He's like, yeah, but in, in my complaining about stuff, that's how I bond with people, which was actually a very astute observation. Cause most people don't recognize that that's what's happening.
We, we cannodle together. We relate about our complaints. We would get all connected and there probably is some like oxytocin, serotonin something or other bonding hormone that kicks out when we do that. And, and it actually takes a conscious effort to break that habit and then have it be connecting through vulnerability and heartfelt sharing and opening ourselves up.
And, you know, for me, it's storytelling, which is a big part of HEAL. You know, us getting to tell our stories and share our hearts and how much that makes a difference. And I think that. That that's another one that we could add to the add health list is there's a, there's something critical that we as human beings have done.
You know, we've only been writing things down for short period of time. We've definitely only been like the level that we record our lives through video and imagery and photographs. And it's just astounding now. (Tanda: mhm)
And the number of times where, you know, I have to catch myself, you know, being like, Oh, I should take a picture of that.
I'm like, or you could just freaking enjoy it. Just let that be sacred.
Tanda Cook: Yeah.
Yeah. And, you know, I've thought often about, with what I just, you know, the move that I made, the farm that I bought, and what's the point? (Sarah: mhm) What's the mission? What's the, I mean, and I don't mean mission as in like, you know, more of the militant.
It's like, what, what's the vision? Why, what, why?
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Tanda Cook: And, or me selfishly, it was to heal me, to be honest. It was to even see if that was possible. Somebody with a very dysfunctional relationship with food, longstanding history of bulimia. You know, I started making myself throw up when I was 17 and went down a very, very, very dysfunctional road with food.
Was that even undoable? Was that even possible? And I need to lean on the earth. I need to lean on a farm. Other people lean on spirituality or religion or careers or, or friends or social or writing or, I mean, I'm sort of a combination of all of that, but yeah, when I got really quiet and I put my energy, my earmuffs on, and I drown out all of the shoulds and all of the have-tos and all of the, but-you-already-haves and all of it, when I would put my earmuffs on and I heard you have to farm.
Because that is going to show you what you are capable of to heal you. Yeah. And that was terrifying because what would that look like? Because that meant I had to get quiet. That meant I had to face a lot of demons and that meant I had to face a lot of the shit that I was running from. And distracting myself with dinner parties and traveling the world and speaking engagements and constantly being busy so I looked so important and that busy-ness, and that importance was a huge mask and smoke show for a distraction from myself. And that's the point for me. And then beyond that, if, if, then I get to share that story and write books about it and tell ridiculous farm stories, which I would love to hop on and just tell farm stories, 'cause I've pretty, pretty hilarious ones.
Sarah Marshall ND: You're going to have to give us at least one, (Tanda: Yeah!) we have to do it. (laughs)
Tanda Cook: Oh gosh. I mean, I have to think of a short one, um, but, you know, just the, if I can translate and give people permission and give people the tools to heal too, and find their voice and find their bravery and find their, that in that thing that's on your heart. That thing that's been screaming since you were little. I mean, I didn't play with Barbies and I didn't play with, you know, dolls. I played with toy farms, tiny cows and tiny pigs and tiny poops and tiny hay bales. And that's what I played with. And now I have the life-size version, it only took me 35 bloody years to get there. (Sarah laughs) And a lot of squiggly lines in between and a lot of dysfunction and a lot of avoidance and a lot of coming at life sideways and now coming at life straight on feels foreign and healthy.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah.
Tanda Cook: And, and if I, you know, I always tell people too, that if you're interested in anything, farming, that chickens are the gateway animals to farming that if you get.
You can't get A chicken because they're flock animals. So you can get three chickens and then
Sarah Marshall ND: there's no a chicken. Three chickens.
Tanda Cook: There's no, there's no having a chicken. That chicken will die very, very soon sad, sad death because it needs other chickens, but chickens are they're kind of they're the heartbeat of the farm and they're, they're herbiciders or pesticiders, their fungiciders and they're zen. And they're a lot of entertainment and... I was talking to my mom the other day and I have probably 65 of them right now. And I said that, you know, my property is big enough that they all have enough space to kind of figure out their own, their own space. But having that many chickens is like having, I have like 15 roosters.
It's like having it's like running a high school (Sarah laughs) (Sarah: oh my god) and yeah if you look at my farm from an aerial view, there's about 10 different pods of, of students, right? (both laugh) So they. There's the, you know, the guys that hang out in the bar and that I'm convinced are the misfits. And they're like sitting in there smoking weed or whatever, you know, misbehaving in the barn.
And then there's, you know, the artsy fartsy kids over underneath the Cedar tree. And then there's the jocks that live under the Oak. And that, I mean, it's hysterical to watch. And then Norman is my rooster and he's. He's the I've decided the principal because he hangs out with me on the porch. No joke.
I will let them all out, all out in the morning and he comes up and he's this big, huge white rooster. And he comes up and sits on the porch with me, the two dogs and the two cats. And we watch the farm.
Sarah Marshall ND: Oh my God.
Tanda Cook: So I recommend chickens.
Sarah Marshall ND: That's fabulous.
Tanda Cook: Yeah, they're fun. But again, it's this farm is, it's the beginning of an actual, authentic conversation with myself, which I have been absolutely terrified to have.
And then begin to share, which is starting today. (Sarah: yeah) Thank you for this.
Sarah Marshall ND: Oh man. God, I'm so honored and (Tanda: yeah) it's it's so, you know, I always say like, thank you listeners for being here so that I can heal my life. (both laugh) And I mean,
Tanda Cook: isn't that your tagline?
Sarah Marshall ND: Oh, God, it is now. I mean, I, and what I will tell you guys careful what you wish for and what you create.
I mean, I said, you know, I really think that there's this conversation whose time has come, where we really need to explore that the blueprint, the foundational reproducible components of what it is and what it takes to really heal like mind, body, spirit, spiritual, you know, emotional, the whole thing.
And. It is not lost on me that we launched on May 7th. And I got diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome in August.
Tanda Cook: Yeah.
Sarah Marshall ND: And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. And the universe is like, well you said you wanted to explore this subject matter? And I'm like, thanks. (Sarah laughs) (Tanda: mhm) And like, so I feel like, I don't know, there's no go ahead or behind, but you're kind of like 18 months ahead of me and I'm like, you know, that there are themes that are bubbling up and it was a big deal for me to move back to the mountains. I was a downhill ski race obsessed kid that became a coach that was married to a helicopter ski guide. I mean, our lives revolved around skiing and the outdoors.
And I went and lived in Scottsdale, Arizona for four years. (Tanda: mhm) And I needed to do that. And it was amazing and it rewired a lot of things about what I thought was possible and impossible and who I was as a person and a success. And it was great. And then coming back here was a big deal. But what I'm starting to get is coming back to Salt Lake City was actually completion of the past. (Tanda: mhm)
It's not my future. I keep looking. I can't see a future here. And I, like, I bought a house here, which I love, which was also a huge accomplishment. I didn't know if I'd be able to do that on my own single and I did, and it's awesome. And it's been incredible.
And I just keep looking at, I like, I cannot see a future here and I, when the chips hit the whatever they do, whenever I get to those points of like, ah, dammit, I threatened two things. One, I'm going to move back East with my family and live in a yurt. Actually, my dream is always to live in a yurt and drive a Tesla because I think it just be hilarious to have a $30,000 home and a hundred thousand dollar car.
I just think that's hilarious (Tanda laughs)
it's on the list. And I might need to do that for a year or two. Right? You know, and I want to live in a yurt through the winter. I want to, like, I actually, speaking of adrenals and chronic fatigue, I met a woman in Montana that she ran a bed and breakfast and she slept outside.
And she's like, Oh yeah, I have this amazing chiropractor who did this work. And my adrenals were smoked and I was a hundred pounds overweight and my blood sugars were a mess. And one of the things he prescribed to me in addition to eating, you know, eating keto and helping restore her endocrine system is that she needed to sleep outside 365 days a year.
And she said that single act. So she has a canvas, four-wall tent on a platform, in her backyard. And she rents one of them out, which is what I slept in. And she sleeps in the other one. And then she has this beautiful Victorian hundred-year-old home in Montana that you can go like have the bed and breakfast experience.
And it's, I was like, Oh my God, totally broke. I'm a naturopath never occurred to me to do that. My body is craving that. Like I was a white water rafting guide and slept outside four months out of the year. And I've done long backpacking trips and stuff. And there's a place where there have been periods of my life, where I spend a lot of time outdoors in the wilderness being in rivers and on the dirt and, and that, and like living outside. And, you know, I don't think if you cut me open a, farmer's going to fall out, but I know you cut me open and an environmental scientist, a lover of the land, want to be a nature is definitely. And so it's been that. And then the other one I threatened is that I'm going to sell everything and sail around the world. (Tanda: mhm)
And I have no clue how I could actually make my income and my business work. And yes, I know there's lots of people who've done it. And my brain is like, yeah, that's good for other people. And you know, my dad's even gotten serious about like, we could sell our cruiser boat and he'd be willing to have me convert over to a blue ocean saltwater boat and go down the intercoastal and end up in the Caribbean.
And then what? And he actually serious. And I watched myself be like, oh, hell no. (Tanda: mhm mhm)
Like, ah ah ah ah
so I don't know. I don't don't know yet. What is exactly, you know, but like, and yeah,
Tanda Cook: and that's what I say, call following the sparkles. You know, you can see your sparkles, you just the how and the when and the where and the, what has it (inaudible)
the what is the sparkle? But (Sarah: yeah) it's the how and the, when, like that doesn't matter, but you do know, you do know, and your body knows. (Sarah: mhm) And I mean, you always can. I know I'm landlocked over here, but you can always (both laugh)
hang out on the farm and sleep under those stars for awhile and contemplate those things.
Sarah Marshall ND: Totally. I'm like, can I just set up a tent in your backyard for a while? And yeah, (Tanda: yes ma'am) yeah, yeah. Totally. Well, universe is conspiring in my favor cause you know, my sister is a month and a half away from moving on to 20 acres of wood in, the Allegheny ridges of Western Pennsylvania and that's the fulfillment of her 20 year dream. (Tanda: wow) And she's, she's in, she's like she's got a little more of the technology bug, so it's going to be hydroponics and greenhouses. And, but there'll be some degree of animals 'cause it's the only way to make that work. You know, animals are critical and, And we've talked about parceling, the land and me getting to eventually build my dream timber-framed, off the grid, completely self-sustaining house. And right now I'm like, yeah, dude, all I need is a yurt platform. Like really. And she's like, "sweet, and then we will hold on to Henry and the Fuzz for you when you go off and sail for six months out of the year. And then when you need to come home and be on land for a while, and" you know, it's been this kind of family joke for three or four years, except I keep saying it.
Tanda Cook: Right.
Sarah Marshall ND: So that's also interesting, you know, and is too, what are the things you keep saying? You know, what are the things you keep threatening? (laughing)
What are the like, you know, and, and there have been some pretty big themes and like, you know, and it's so crazy to me. Cause the idea of sailing across oceans seems like really. Does it? How do I have to go to that extreme? Does it have to be about, you know, like and, and all it took was a trip across an ocean and it was like something cracked open. And then if I want to just get poetic about it, you know, my mom's last name is Fiske, which is Norwegian for fishermen and my every single one of my uncles. And many of the men in my, you know, heritage have either been Navy, merchant Marine, deep sea fishermen. Like it's, there's actually a long genetic story and I've lived in Utah, Arizona, Montana. And you know, a lot of really phenomenal places most of the last 20 years. And I, you know, that was a huge part of it.
And, and I don't know, there's just something else. That's, that's knocking that's next
I was
Tanda Cook: gonna say, it's knocking pretty loudly. I can hear it.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah. It's a-la-la-la (Laughs)
Tanda Cook: uh-huh
Sarah Marshall ND: but so, yeah, you know, there's no way to like sum up this episode. We're just going to leave, you know, people pondering, wondering, you know, whatever. But Dr. Cook, this has been extraordinary and a really amazing exploration. And yeah, we totally should just do like a special episode of the podcast, which is every hilarious farm story you can come up with 'cause they're fantastic.
Tanda Cook: Oh my gosh. Animals are more entertaining than any Netflix series ever. (Sarah: right?) Yes, I would love that, you know, and we can dive more into the food if people want that too.
Sarah Marshall ND: Totally. No, definitely. And, and when I, you know, whatever works for you, like, are you accepting new patients? Do you, do you do farm visits?
What's your, what's your, how do people work with you? Or are you closed for business for a little while doing some personal work?
Tanda Cook: Yeah, no, that's a great question. so I'm in the process of relaunching my website and, And then I've got another cookbook coming along that should be launched hopefully this year. And then, a farm website that I will also launch. You can find me on Instagram @drtandacook. And then I'm also on Facebook, Dr. Tanda Cook ND. And then my website is drtandacook.com. So, right now, I mean, I've kind of taken, I mean, as you can imagine, I've just moved an entire farm 25 hours south, (Sarah laughs) a little bit of a breather, but, (Sarah: yeah) but a lot is in the works.
I mean, I'm, I'm really, I'm so excited about this next venture. I am so dedicated to educating people about sustainable. And it's not even sustainable for me. It's called regenerative farming and really holistic management of the earth and really utilizing animals and plants to, to bring life back. And, and so, there's, this Fall is a lot of research. I've hired Joel Salatin is a hero of mine. You guys don't know him. It's Polyface , Farmers in many faces. Polyface Farm in Swoope, Virginia. He's just, he's a big deal in the regenerative farming community. and so I he's coming next month to do a consult with me at the farm. So, (Sarah: wow) you know, I'm taking, yeah, I'm taking this thing pretty seriously.
I mean, it's, it really is. It's been deep in my DNA for a lot of years and it's just starting to come out pretty, pretty hard. So, yeah, lots of fun things in the works, but in the interim, you know, you find me on Instagram and you can see all of the faces of the farms.
Sarah Marshall ND: Totally. Awesome. Good. Oh my God. I want to do this forever.
And we're going to, (Tanda: yes!!) we're going to hit pause here. And just thank you for you are absolutely one of the single most influential people in my life ever. And, it's just a joy and a pleasure to have this, to get to share and, and, I can't wait for what's next.
Tanda Cook: Thank you. Same.
Sarah Marshall ND: Yeah. Cool. All right. Until next time.
(Music)
Thank you to today's guest Dr. Tanda Cook for her profound wisdom and grace. If HEAL has been making a difference for you, we would greatly appreciate it. If you left us a review on your favorite platform, so we can reach more people and help heal our world. For a full transcript and all the resources for today's show visit SarahMarshallND.com/podcast.
Keep the conversation going, have ideas or a healing story to share? Send us your thoughts wants for future episodes or questions by contacting us at sarahmarshallnd.com or on Instagram @SarahMarshallND. Special thanks to our music composer, Roddy Nikpour, and our editor, Kendra Vicken. We'll see you next time.