Dr. AmandaLynn Hoffman, ND, Marfans, Open Mindedness, and Being Big Hearted
This week, naturopathic doctor AmandaLynn Hoffman shares her path to becoming a physician from her start being one of five siblings who all have the genetic syndrome Marfans, shaped by a life of flexibility, open-mindedness, and literally being big-hearted, Amanda shows us to be bold, audacious, and live out loud no matter our circumstances.
Referenced in the Show
“Loose Woman: A Naturopathic Guide to Connective Tissue Issues” by Dr. Amanda Lynn Hoffman
Dr. Lynn Sakai, discovered the gene mutation for Marfan Syndrome
Dr. Amanda’s Bio
As a patient and a doctor specializing in hypermobile spectrum disorders Dr. AmandaLynn Hoffman is a chronic pain patient of Marfan syndrome. Her healing path of 25 years and over half a million dollars in student loans gives her insights from patient to a well trained doctor. All to be able to condense this for a better public bite into the vast world of Natural Medicine.
Dr AmandaLynn is passionate about opening the medicine's knowledge once again to the people. As a naturopathic physician her knowledge of the Alternative Health field as a patient and Doctor helps give a more personal connection to her patients' struggle. As an expert in this rare disease she sees becoming increasingly misdiagnosed she's determined to help educate those trying to connect the dots of there dis-ease. Her Focus is on what can be done in the kitchen and home for your family. DrAmandaLynn.com offers a quick guide to foods to heal and strengthen connective tissues. This signs you up for a series continuing to educate on the loose connective tissue disorders and the naturopathic treatments. From functional medicine to homeopathy find out what has served Dr. AmandaLynn and her patients the best.
I hope this will help your listeners and be an inspiring uplifting story as well as give plenty of fun facts to nibble on as they find answers to their own struggles. Thank you for the opportunity to help me share and serve those who need this information.
Full Transcript
Sarah Marshall, ND:Welcome to Heal! This week, naturopathic doctor AmandaLynn Hoffman shares her path to becoming a physician from her start being one of five siblings who all have the genetic syndrome Marfans, shaped by a life of flexibility, open-mindedness, and literally being big-hearted, Amanda shows us to be bold, audacious, and live out loud no matter our circumstances. I'm your host, Dr. Sarah Marshall.
(music)
Sarah Marshall, ND: We have Dr. Amanda Hoffman, the extraordinary, the brilliant, the beautiful, the awesome is here on Heal the podcast and I am so excited about this conversation. No pressure, dude, no pressure. But you are, you're just a bright and beaming light and I'm super excited to see what trouble we get ourselves into in this conversation today. But I want to start what are you up to these days, like, what's your gig? What matters to you?
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Oh fun. Yeah. You know, that is a great question because there are so many irons in the fire with everything going on, you know, I'm just getting pulled from, okay. My passion, I came here on the earth for bringing Marfan syndrome up to the surface, and then there's naturopathic medicine in general, you know, this huge revolution in medicine that is peaking now, or we're so much more needed than ever before you can't hide from the lies anymore. So there needs to be these big leaders out in front that way. Right. So draining, but exciting why we became naturopathic doctors, really, you know,
Sarah Marshall, ND: I actually went back and read essays that I wrote to get into, you know, what was Encina Naturopathic college now, the university. And it's kind of, like hairs on the back of your neck, standing up kookie, how I was onto something at 24 years old, not having any clinical knowledge or medical expertise, like about the healing mechanisms of the body and what really matters.
Like it was, it was like ingrained in me somewhere and then naturopathic school helped me formalize it and organize it. But yeah, so some of this stuff is like, I don't know, cosmic.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: It is, isn't it? Yeah. We were all drawn early on to help get us out there in the forefront. Yeah. I think there's definitely something to us and too it's that we get ahead of the curve. Like I was in massage therapy, you know, 25-30 years ago and then it was like, Whoa, everybody gets a massage therapist, you know? And so now they're all like, want to be a naturopath and I'm like, now's the time to do it because now you can make money at it a lot easier. We were at the beginning, it's like credit cards, mom and dad, and student loan money I saved up in squirreled away. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall, ND: So what are you, what are you up to right now? Tell me about some of the irons.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: So we've got a book and the process to help get out kind of my, just real basic, but the, my legacy, I want to leave as really all of the knowledge I have acquired for Marfan syndrome that ripples all the way through to the rare connective tissue disorders of hypermobility affects a lot of us ad really just a lot of women who were like, seen as like, Oh yeah, you're flexible that's great. Well, there was this dark side to it. Like your insides can just kind of fall out or, you know, your, like your acid keeps coming up your throat and it's just, none of these doctors are diagnosing it.
You're getting pieces together, you know, and it's, again, takes like a naturopath to step back, see everything could go, Hey, you, You've got a functionally, you're just kind of loose everywhere. You're always fighting the leaky gut syndrome type of thing. And it's now I'm of course attracting more and more people in this realm who aren't getting help anyway, they're coming in for other things.
And then I'm feeling I'm going, Oh, Whoa. You're like moving all over the place, aren't you? You got a little loose ligaments. They're like, yeah. You know, I twist my ankle all the time or whatever. So it's pretty cool. Little kids to moms, you know, just the family members just dialing in my, my fricking radar, It's just that much bigger... yeah
Sarah Marshall, ND: You came to it cause that's what you deal with. So tell us a little bit about your background, like your story, and then we'll get into some of like what you've been able to do about it.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Yeah. Why. My mom and her pediatrician just kind of knew, like she was loose. I was her first baby. I just kind of slid out then the doctor's like, Whoa, this baby is really flexible.
Like, well, that's like a doctor that's touched so many babies cause freaking balls of, you know, human tissue anyway. Like, wow, well man, you know, OHSU was where Dr. Linda Chi discovered the five brilliant gene that is the main mutation with my syndrome, Marfan syndrome, just being a little bit different than the other ones.
So I got diagnosed a little earlier than most, and I think it just kind of coincided around third grade when I couldn't see the board anymore. But loose connective tissue means like your eyes will be long and thin too. So it just like everything overgrows over stretches. There's a stop sequence that doesn't happen with, with growing.
And, and then I looked pretty normal as a kid. Like, and, but it, and it'll come on as you grow because it's almost an auto-immunity to your muscles. So you're just breaking down your muscles all the time and then reinforcing scar tissue to try and help say what muscle parts are getting broken down or connective tissue extra cellular matrix and on.
But so it's funny to look at like my baby pictures, like, Oh yeah, totally look normal. And I feel like. Fucking Marfan syndrome robbed my looks. I would look totally different. Not, you know, I'm like, Oh, I'm so freaking tall and thin and stuff. Ugly duckling stages, for sure as a kid. And then now being fucking 45 and single, I think it's more of like, I'm in my power now though, to really know.
I'm just like attracting everybody. I'm like, Oh, they're so beautiful now. But yeah, yeah, yeah. For the weirdo stretching everywhere. I went, my friends, like didn't even want to hang around me and they're like, you're just bleeding on the bus stop and you have to like stretch your body all the time. And I didn't know how to express, like I'm in pain all the time, you know?
Cause we look normal. And so it was my beginnings of able ism being stereotyped and not having anything, but showing like, Ooh, I'm look different. You know, I grow in this fast. So, you know, it's bouncing around OHSU of course, all medical doctors I put her on a beta blocker. Well, I don't think my mom ever even tried it because of looking at it, she maybe did later with my brother. And he was just like on the couch all the time. It just, you know, the genetic...
Sarah Marshall, ND: Does he have the same genetic as well, your brother does?
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Yeah. I'm the oldest of five of us having it. So, wow. Yes. Cause it's supposed to be 50 50 and we all have it. The woman that gene, which may we have a family member that has tracked our us down all the way back to Abraham Lincoln.
And if you look at him, he was extremely tall and skinny with crazy ideas.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And does that go along with it? You're an immense creativity.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: This is like openness and flexibility you have in mind and spirit it goes all the way through you get it right all the way
Sarah Marshall, ND: our life. And I find that so always so interesting in, you know, I mean, I use the word disease, cause that's what we call it, but it doesn't necessarily have to be like your body just, it does some things really well and other things, not the same, but not being normal doesn't make it wrong kind of a thing. But you know, I've had other clients where like I had one person I knew really well that she had Lou Gehrig's disease in her thirties and her common conversation about herself most of her life was being weak and small and like not having any strength to stand up. And, and then you have this flaccid paralysis disease that has you literally just not have a backbone, like not, you know, and I don't think that that's accidental. And often we can even see. And I don't know, are you familiar with Bernay Brown's work? Right. So Bernie Brown world-renowned sociologists now who, you know, whoops, accidentally ended up on Ted talk and then it became like one of the top five, most watched Ted talks in the world and all the things she talks about shame and vulnerability. But what I love about the way she looks at things is her the way they study it.
As they interview people and then they track the language. They literally track, like, what are the words people use all the time? How do they say these things? And I, and I'm now going to give this idea a way. So if somebody else wants to do it, do it and tell me the results, because I don't have time, but I've had this thought if I ever want to get a PhD, what I want to do is be able to do longitudinal studies, where we track the speaking that people have about themselves, others in the world and then be able to link it statistically to the kinds of diseases that they get later on in life. Because I think it manifests in our mental space in our view, not like that, that causes the disease, but that it's almost like those could be precursors to the disease.
Like what if we could then have an app you could speak into and say, and answer these questions. And it could literally say you're more likely to end up with cardiovascular disease, or you're more likely to end up with autoimmune disease because of the way that your language even is about things like that.
So I totally get it. And I do get how that could have. You have this hypermobility in your joints and this openness and flexibility that has you be open and flexible to all kinds of things in life.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: And we literally have bigger hearts and I have not met anybody and we all look exactly the same, but we're all just like cute, easy to come up and talk to, you know?
Right. And not feeling like I could be that person understand everybody. So it's definitely awesome. But you have to learn your boundaries a lot better on that front, but no, that's always fascinated me, Sarah, because we look at like other cultures and how they speak and the words they have in the words they don't have.
Or in Japan, if you accidentally kick the chair over, you wouldn't say like that chair fell over. Like it wasn't even your fault kind of thing. The universe is doing this and you have more connection with it. Or like, it's like, Oh, it's up to God's will, you know, with everything it's God's will. And you know, there's a point of that where it's like, well, when are you doing something? God is you too, you know, I like being open, receptive, but also where's the feminine or the masculine side to make it happen.
Sarah Marshall, ND: So now here you are going through your own journey and then how did you end up a naturopath?
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Write, my own journey kept going, kept going. You know, so first it was like that. My first massage in college in Bend Oregon, it's amazing a woman who had been doing it in California forever.
Yeah. Sure. Come on over and get a massage. She's offered it free to everybody. I'm the only one who took it up. Cause I'm like. I'm more willing to do something new. I love for an adventure. Holy fuck. That was better than any sex or drug I had ever done at 19 yet. Right. I'm just laying there. Like my body finally feels good, this is what it feels like to kind of be in your body.
Cause you know, you brought on a level of pain with us, chronic pain patients to start stepping out of it. You're like, eh, I don't want to really live in that vessel very often. So I was like, Whoa, first time I really connected in my body and finding a treatment that could really work for me besides just playing me on the couch all day.
Thanks, obese. So Yeah, that like opened up like, okay, then experimenting in college, then it's marijuana. Now marijuana opens up to like meditation, yoga, breath work, like the way your mind opens up from that. And I had friends told me don't ever, you don't need psychedelics. Amanda. You're already kind of there more with marijuana
as the ability to, so I've been an advocate for, for that for pain way before ever, you know, years ago. Yeah. So it's kind of fun to see now my parents were like, Oh my God. Or like now coming to me for tips on growing and everything, because I used to have to hide it in your closet, but But yeah, that definitely then took me into energy work.
Right. And that's kind of where the start of really being able to learn how to heal myself and others so much faster. Right. You do. So I was, dude, did massage went to school to become a therapist. I'm like, this is the best thing I can figure out to do. I need it. I want to give it to people. And I I'm running late.
Typical for me. I smashed my finger and my car door running into massage school, downtown Eugene. And I come running in just balling, you know, like 12 out of 10 pain, smashing your finger and your card, or right. Just busted up my thumb, this Reiki master grabs my hand, puts it around my thumb and I totally sorrows within three seconds, that pain went to zero.
She was so good. I was like, what did you do? And. She told me about Reiki and like, Oh, here's the class. Let's go do it. This thumb has forever been my monitor for Reiki stuff. I would touch my patients and my massage clients. And this'll start wiggling where the spot is. And then it like, release's the stagnant, chi and energy from that spot.
And it's been my little, little marker ever since. And it's like, you know, we're not going to learn if we don't have these struggles and I feel like I get a more, so I know how to fix my patients.
Sarah Marshall, ND: No it’s totally. I mean, you know, why did I become a naturopath? Like honestly, I had asthma and allergies and all kinds of lung immune issues growing up and just my own exploration and something inside of me that was like, yeah, I had my albuterol inhaler and they wanted to put me on steroids all the time.
And you know, like they did end up taking my tonsils out when I was 18 cause I had antibiotic resistant strep throat after five years of antibiotics, post mono. So like I had all this stuff going on. Yeah. Oh, and there was something inside of me that said like, okay, I had a chemistry degree. That's what my undergraduate was.
And I'm like, well, I know when a chemical reaction, if you have the right reagents under the right conditions, temperature, pressure, pressure doesn't really change much, you know? And then pH will, then you get the right things out if you're getting the wrong things out. What, so it was like, I started messing around with diet and my body is my own chemistry set.
And then that led me to look into herbs, which led me to look into like, you know, and I already grew up with one foot in a lot of alternative medicine, but I didn't know, natural paths existed. I only found out there was such a thing as a naturopathic physician about three days before I applied to school.
I read an article in a magazine. And I literally was like, what was that in natural health magazine? And it was actually for one of the online doctors of nature, apathy that isn't a clinical medical program and the advertisement literally read you will be a naturopathic doctor. And I was like, what is that?
I've never even heard of that. And I Googled it. And then three days later I was downloading applications to schools. Like it was like the light bulb went off, but it was my own process and my own journey of like, and you know, I go to the local natural food store and I would stare at three aisles of supplements and be like, I don't know, like, let's try two of these, you know, and I just like try stuff, but I was literally guessing, and I know a lot of my clients that like, you know, they get it and then that's like, that's a whole nother thing I could get going on the tangent of like, and then, you know, is it the quality of the herbs?
Is that why it's working or not working? Like how was it actually ever produced? Where was it produced under what conditions in which I now know how important all those components are after school. So like, that's a place where you get to help a lot of people is navigate that world, but that was already all of interest to me.
And I grew up with crystals. I wore Malikite around my neck in order to open lungs and my breathing open up. My mom was awesome about like, you know, she came from a pretty alternative background and we would do, you know, guided light meditations. When I, you know, I'd be on all the drugs and I still couldn't breathe.
And so she'd lay there and we'd do all these guided visualizations and things like that. So I had that piece, I just didn't know we existed. I didn't know there was a naturopathic doctor, so that was like how it happened for me was this like magazine article that changed my life. And then, you know, now it's been almost 20 years since that journey began and, and figuring it out.
But each step of the way, like, I, I think we might've talked about this when we reconnected, but last summer I got diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, you know, and that's post healing, all of my childhood, chronic illness and completely resetting everything. And, and I really do have it, like, it's the best thing that's ever happened to me.
And I'm actually now about nine months in since being diagnosed and like, Doing fantastic because I just immediately took action. So I'm kind of not even qualified for the diagnosis anymore, which I'm fine with that. It's something I have been responsible for, but so different. And that led me to a whole new exploration of, you know, Sears and mold toxicity and underlying like candida overgrowth that I'd never studied in the same extent.
Like I'm now learning organic acid testing and all these kinds of things, because it was my own exploration. So, you know, you slam your thumb in a car door and it leads you to Reiki and then this next thing happens. And then I, my job is just to stay at least one, if not five steps ahead of my clients. And as long as I can do that, I know can keep helping each other.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Exactly. Exactly like, okay, I can take you down this path. And I love the ones that are pushing me, you know, and they'll be like my athletes and stuff because I'm an athlete inside, but I can't
Sarah Marshall, ND: my inner athlete.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: I continued this conversation in Boston, which I'm totally thinking about today St.Patty's day. But when I got approached by the WNBA Scouts and I was just like flirting with the idea for them, why they keep buying me drinks at this lesbian bar cause they would go to the lesbian dance clubs to scout. I happened to be playing co-ed for the city of Boston. Co-ed basketball, all this stuff I'm not supposed to be doing, but you know, I'm not going to say no
Sarah Marshall, ND: because in my fans they're worried about like actually overextending and causing injury and so they'll tell you to like not do those things.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Dislocated a hip from a layup in 15, 16, that forever kills my right side. But I was like, okay, I'll just make sure I do my lamps on my left side, I'm left handed. You know, super sweet as much as I'd be scared of doing coed basketball. Those guys are just like, they're not going to roll you over, like girls do in high school.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Girls have something to prove. So it sometimes comes out different.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: That was I can't ever do those things, but the you know, the, all of our patients are so much more educated, you know, so they're constantly helping me go. And I love being an older adult now where I don't feel like I have to have all the answers.
Yeah. Let me, let me check that one out for ya. And then I could learn too. So it's really nice to just focus on a few things and you know, GI stuff, hormone, adrenal stuff. And yeah, the other stuff comes like Moldova crap, environmental medicine, toxicity, manganese. We've got steel mill here. I've got a lot of patients I got to detox manganese from connection with copper and then chronic fatigue syndrome, you know, they're going into an auto immunity. So yeah, we're getting into just a dirty or dirty or world or
Sarah Marshall, ND: yeah I do think it’s changed. It's like, it's not the same, you know? I mean, every, every generation has their version of, it's not the same.
I mean, we're not dealing with world Wars. That's awesome. We're not dealing with, you know, the great depression really, and even whatever versions of economic challenges we have, they're different than they were. They're our version now, you know, but then what used to be fringe conversations of heavy metal toxicity is like, it's hard pressed finding an American anymore that wouldn't, you know, and it used to be like, Oh, well, do you know when we were in school even it was like, Hairdressers people who work in specific industries. I've seen it in some of my clients that are pretty regular artists. Cause they got a bad habit of sticking their paint brushes in their mouth. And so they get paint all over themselves. So I definitely have some, but, but it was always like a niche.
And now I have people who are like, you really think it could be heavy metals and I'm like, yeah. They're like, but I, I don't have any exposure. I'm like, that's not how it works anymore. First of all you do because you live here. Period. And there's so many hidden things in so many places. I just heard that they're now they've invented a vacuum and they're sweeping up the ocean floor outside of Catalina Island in Los Angeles, because there was old dumping grounds of herbicides and pesticides and particularly I think it's DDT is that right?
And it's all illegal now, but they had known that they had dropped a lot of excess in the ocean back in the day and it's still there and it's getting into the water. Like it's actually like into the local LA water, not just, you know, nevermind the fish in the ocean, but the actual it's starting to have a problem.
So there. Like, there's a big thing where they're literally vacuuming up the ocean floor to get the toxicity out of it. So it's just the bottom line is it's everywhere now. And you know, doesn't mean everybody's toxic because some people are better at excretion and elimination than others, but now we're learning more about, you know, methylation defects and the calm T gene and other things that impact our body's abilities.
And that's where some of my clients were like, I don't get it. I still can't walk down the laundry detergent aisle. I still can't be in the perfume section at the, you know, in the international airports, in you're in the duty free shop. And they have to hold their breath walking to the other side of the Cancun airport because of all the perfumes. And it's like, those are the people that I go. We gotta look, we got to look for underlying. You know, what else is going on?
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: I know now you have to be experts for reading everybody's genetic stuff coming in, which is cool. We're going to go so much farther and faster. Being able to understand people's dirty genes to use Dr. Ben Lynch’s term there, which is just a really helped me with put people into like, but the histamine goes to my Ehlers-Danlos people on a different way than the DOA, but Cool thing with our medicine treatments are the same. Right? A lot of times it doesn't fucking matter what the label is, what it is,
Sarah Marshall, ND: whatever you just said, that sentence, even I didn't follow that. I don't know what with the histamine and the hunt, him and him and I'm to, but the point is...
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Right, right. So dealer Stan on loss people, they found that their mutation is the histamine gene, because it's too much will make you extra loose and flexible, right. Where the DAO gene, if that's dirty and not, you just have extra histamine, you're kicking up in your gut and that'll just be kind of a regular person who has a histamine problem methylation, possibly.
And then yeah, that the cool thing that Alina Guggenheim, our colleague is four years out on a waiting list because she's one of the experts and only natural paths at OHSE doing that. So it's really cool to take her trainings to help. Relieve some of her patients there with this stuff, but, you know, vitamin C, Quecetin, all the same things. Right.
Sarah Marshall, ND: That's the, yeah. And that's the thing I'm even seeing around. I actually realized that I've treated several cases of mold toxicity and heavy metals without ever testing them for either one and it just unveiled itself and we kept going on the track. And then now I'm learning more about the specific cause that I'm looking back and going, Oh, that's what was going on. Now I do think, you know, precision can help with efficiency. So if we can say exactly what it is, it can move things quicker. But the flip side is, and this is just kind of a general warning out there is I've also seen some... I'll be honest, more the integrative MDs where they'll learn about these. And then they'll do like $10,000 of testing all at once and they'll do the whole kitten caboodle, and then kind of throw the book at people.
But here's the thing is therapeutic order matters. And what I mean by that is like, you got to unwind. Like, if anybody, like here's the best example is like, you go into your jewelry box and you have an old chain that's gotten in like nine knots and you can't just pull the two ends, it won't go, well, you have to slowly find your way through, which knot needs to be undone first and then what opens up and then what opens up and the body's the same way. And so like, that's where my experience and, and some integrative docs have really. And when I say that, I mean, typically medical doctors who've then gone on to get further education in integrative medicine...
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: retrained backwards.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah, and it's awesome where they're getting to and some of them I'm like, I just went to a conference where I learned from a whole bunch of these integrative medical doctors in inflammatory neurologic conditions. And that's where a lot more I learned about mold and I learned more about candida overgrowth.
And this is crazy that fungus's can actually grow their hyphe, which are those long arms. And they can open transporters in a nerve cell so that the door's always open, put the hyphe mold through the door and grow through the nerve cell and they get into the brain crossing the blood-brain barrier. That's how it happens. It doesn't, it goes inside the cell and it's like... It really is. So the people listening is like, that's how, and they're seeing on autopsies of particularly early onset Alzheimer's and dementia, but also with some of these vets that are coming back where the head trauma makes the brain more susceptible, then their diet and the gut ecology is all off for varying different reasons, which that's a chicken or the egg thing…. nervous system problems that can cause gut issues, gut issues can call cause nervous system problems so they interconnect and then the yeast colonizes in literally can get through. And the way they discovered this was there was a group of patients who all needed to have their vagus nerve, which is the nerve that connects the GI tract to the brain essentially. And several other things, they were having their biggest nerve cut for a totally different reason, but all these people who had that surgery weren't ever getting Parkinson's disease. Like they were at a way lower risk for Parkinson's. And so they started to study why is that? And one of the things is, is because these gut issues, we're going through the baby's nerve into the brain, and now they're not doing it because of the surgery. Now that does not mean anybody should run out there and get their vagus nerve cut. But those kinds of details,
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: We’re now able to do Madison. Yeah. Why we go backwards? Oh, this caused this.
Sarah Marshall, ND: We're going to call this the geek episode. So cause we are totally geeking out on this stuff, but yeah.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: And keep the transporter door open
Sarah Marshall, ND: point of all of this, right. Is yes, you can get hyper. And, you know, I am a science geek and I do kind of love this stuff.
And like, if I had my way, I would run tests up the one end and down the other with all my clients and see all the little nitty-gritty details. But I'm always weighing the pros and cons of where are you going to put your financial resources? Because I've seen people exhaust themselves on the diagnostics, but now the treatment needs about 10 grand to be able to implement what needs to be done over a year or two to clean it up.
And then, and then there's the therapeutic order. Like which thing do you start with? And that's where I think naturopathic physicians still have a very unique knowledge set that's not yet duplicated in integrative physicians because we are experts in physiology. We know how healthy bodies work. We know what the healthy body is supposed to be doing.
And so we can see it. And I always say, it's sort of like back in the day before digital photography, you had film and you had this thing called a negative and it was like, the negative in the photograph are the same image, but completely the inverse of each other. And that's kind of how naturopaths are, is like we're looking at the same data and we're seeing the same things that medical doctors do but we see it from the flip. Instead of saying, what's wrong with the body, what's wrong with like, what disease is this? We're asking? Well, what is the endocrine system not doing? Why is the gut not balanced and healthy? We're looking for like, what's the missing physiology that if that was happening, then this body would be in a normal state of existence.
And like that piece is not... I rarely hear that from MDs yet. Like I think that's where we get to be leaders. We get to be teachers, we get to be trainers. Like we get to actually put that out there because I still don't hear that very often. They may now be replacing, you know, NSAIDs and ibuprofen and Tylenol with curcumin, with tumeric.
Great, great, but that's, that's like we haven't gotten to the comprehensive way of dealing with things, you know, especially if you're getting into complicated stuff with people, with genetic issues that then we're mitigating their physiology to do the best they can. So like tell us a little bit more, what's the expectation with our fans? Like, what I remember is, you know, shorter life, life expectancy, and
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: right. I'm supposed to have my aortic aneurysm around the corner at 45, a swim and just rip open and you better have your medical bracelet on so they know how you went down. Yeah. And so that That was always the big, scary one in school, right?
It's the aortic root will rip open. So you watch that, monitor it and protect it. And I had an MRI done now I'm doing all my naturopathic stuff and I am the latest one in my family to have to have surgery. My brothers went out heart surgery in twenties. My sister's more like 40. My youngest sister is good though.
She's just got some wicked scoliosis, which is a common thing too. But the, the pain thing in the, in the muscles is definitely what you are always looking for answers with. And it's just so draining and stuff like that, but a leaky gut all the time
Sarah Marshall, ND: Cause the connective tissue in the gut can't hold together either.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Yeah exactly. So you have to do double time of Saccharomyces boulardii and making really sure you're doing non-inflammatory foods and. So much on the bone broth and college and support, you know, but if you've got Ehlers-Danlos of like, Oh, watch out for those histamine bombs Right. So it's just really, it comes back with all of us spoonies, these are chronic pain patients. So just kind of learning where your nose are and you know, all of us who want to go, go, go, I find we have it marked fans, or maybe it's people with just genetic issues, have a few other things. Like I've got APOE E and the liver, you know, my mom's kind of hemochromatosis, you know, it was like other things that can get flipped and that's just all really goes with just the, the sequencing getting all weird and off and such, but I have lost my track now...
Sarah Marshall, ND: what we were talking about, the like life expectancy and some of the later term, like what the long-term consequences for, you know, what's predictable.
And what I think I'm hearing already is like, here's here, I'm leading the witness. I'm gonna just ask the question. I want the answer to, do you think you're doing better? Than a standard Marfan patient, given that your naturopathic...
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: By far the amount of stuff I can get done, you know, is just so much more for sure.
Although I got lucky, my strain isn't as intense. We'll have, you know, it's a spectrum. Luckily ours is called a syndrome. It's not even considered a disease type of thing yet, you know, so that's for her it's we can see, see those things, but yeah, haven't had to have my heart surgery yet. I'm going to see if I can push that off as much as possible.
I ha I don't have the killer stomach issues cause I understand the leaky gut. There's tons of GI stuff and that's why my first big program from our fans is really that leaky gut cause that we know that guts, everything that got starts going off now, your brain is. Vagus nerve, boom, brain fog going on way more than just, just gluten, like for your typical, see the amount of activity I do.
I think it was way beyond, you know, I got two young boys I'm 45, I'm still chasing a five-year-old and doing Kung Fu you know, it's learning the things that you can do and how far, you know, like I shouldn't be snowboarding anymore. Now I have fucking migraines every morning, if I'm not careful slamming my head around. So these, these things I'm like, okay. My patients do what I tell you, not what I do, because I'm going to find out for us over here.
Sarah Marshall, ND: What was that about being a rebel doctor? We were talking about that.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: That's going to be my podcast name Rebel doctor.com. It's already, the page is going up here soon because I've always tried to learn and even in med school, it was like, okay, who can stay up all late drinking coffee in a bar with all of them, Bible crew, friends, you know, and like, just do the wrong things. You guys are natural bad kids or like, yeah, but you just try med school, dude. You'll do whatever. So then adrenal fatigue, right. Fix that one and
Sarah Marshall, ND: We just thought we’d experiment with ourselves and then push our limits and see.
But you know, some of it too is. And I know you and I fall in this, it, you know, not all naturopaths are like you and I think we're rebels within a rebel community. I, I, I through out that definition way back snd I think it came out of, I don't know when it started the nineties or whatever, but I remember kind in the metaphysical early mind, body medicine conversations was that health was about balance.
And I tossed that idea out a long time ago. And I'm like, first of all, if we actually look in evolution, like that's not about balance, what has evolution evolve is this push up against an edge to see how close to the edge can you get without dying and the ones that die, they don't evolve and the ones that don't die evolve. But you're not, it's not the speed he sees that are in their comfort zone that make the next move.
Right? So like, I think some of us do have that. I have that. I know you have that we're like my reason for naturopathic medicine is not about balance. It's how much can I get away with? Okay. So if I take these supplements and if I make sure I eat this healthy, then I can go do these other things over here. And it's like, so that's where the human potential movement and maximizing performance became more interesting to me is like, not about how can I sit in Lotus position in Chi mode all the time, which I do do that, but that's one of the things I do so that I can go push the edges again and like explore.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Yes. Yes. So I joke. That's why I went to medical school so I could figure out how okay, if I'm going to eat like this, what can I need to do to balance out that crap I liked. And if I like my gin and tonics and here in the Willamette Valley wine industry, and you know, it's all about that balance and learning, okay, we're going to have to detox a little often, a little more often and to have to do this and that.
And so my joke was like, I learned just so I could keep up my bad habits.
Sarah Marshall, ND: The truth is out now.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: That is my other scene. I've been doing a research on right now, too with a lot of street kids. Is that because there, especially now after COVID people are going to their bad habits hard. Right. And. And you see now that hangover cure with the B vitamins and some herbs writing on the front counter of all the seven Eleven's anymore and you're like, God damn it, I could have created that a long...
Sarah Marshall, ND: I could of formulated that a long time ago.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: We've been doing this since med school, or we had our own like, okay, this is the Vegas hangover one right here. This is just your typical.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Although I do get, I honestly do get a little annoyed about all the The spa, I V drip places that are popping up.
When I lived in Arizona, there was a lot of them and it was like, totally detox. Retox, you know, it was like, you partied all weekend so just replenish your nutrients, you know, by Ivy on Monday morning. And I'm a little like, but at whatever it's trendy and it's making some of our colleagues some good money to be able to administer.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: And it's those ways to get them in. Let's talk a little bit more about things.
Sarah Marshall, ND: IVs are gateway drug to getting people into opening up to the rest of medicine. So, yeah, that's fine.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: So in general can be
Sarah Marshall, ND: people like quick results that’s for sure.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Yeah exactly
Sarah Marshall, ND: And going back to when we were talking about before of the therapeutic order, like, you know, I just, I had to follow up with a new client this morning.
She's really only three weeks in and I haven't done anything crazy. We're just bringing consciousness to her food. She's done castor oil packs twice, you know, she's just opening herself up. But in this process of the shifts she's already made heartburn is down, breathing is better sleeping through the night, five times.
She hadn't slept through the night and almost a year before that. So like, that's the other thing I love to see is, is when, like the really easy basics. And I start people with that. I don't usually add supplementation in until about two or three months into treatment, because I want people to really recognize increasing the awareness and doing basic things and utilizing stuff that like actually is in your, in your kitchen cabinet, like Apple cider vinegar or baking soda can start to make those differences and to empower people around that.
And then we use the supplements to just crank the volume up on some things. And it does depend on who I'm starting with. You know, this wasn't somebody that is already dealing with a bunch of major serious diagnoses, but was in the world of, I feel like crap though. And I don't like my alternatives of just having to be on steroids and, you know, nebulizers and those kinds of things is like, want a different options.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Right. So that's where I find all the alternative health coaches out there that are killing it online because they don't have licenses to protect and my thing is they don't even know the questions to ask because they don't understand how healing goes. You know? So it is ending up just being what we learned in school, green allopathic, medicine.
How do you replace a Tums with something alternative? Well, that's great and all, but it's still the symptom coverage where you're getting into knowing those herbs and what's really something you need to do in your kitchen on a general basis, sip in your pickle juice before you eat that sausage, you know, is going to be so much more empowering for you.
And but figuring out why that happened, why that was there and, and knowing, you know, and I like it was like, quote, I think it was like from Damien Hall, he used to know… or Senior Hall, we used to do kind of interviews. He's like, I don't even, I'm so ignorant. I don't even know the right questions, you know, for some of the stuff, with things and that's, and that's really where you know, for really when we get on this, it is the interview process it's going into that patient and getting them to open up and then we can really find boom, boom, boom.
Sarah Marshall, ND: And then I also bring in that intuitive component to that I know you work with where it's like, I also just have a general agreement with the universe that every new client will say exactly what they need to say for me to know what they're dealing with. And that I actually just, you know, not the truth, but it is where I stand is that every client tells me the key to their healing in the first visit, their body's wisdom, their soul somehow gets it out of their mouth.
Whether they know they've said it or not. And I often can trace that back. And it's like, and people often say things to me. Like, I don't know why I'm telling you this, or is this even relevant? Do you want me talking about it? And I'm like, yes, yes I do.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Yup.
Sarah Marshall, ND: It's wild. So here's the million dollar question Dr. Amanda...
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: tap into it. What, what?
Sarah Marshall, ND: If you had 60 seconds to tell the world anything? Like what, what is it that if you could just like, from the high mountain top, what would you say?
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: In right now pertinent to, you know, The beginning of 2021, it would be you guys, all me to stop doing and let's just go back and be. Rest, bring on the mysterious, the messy, this is where the miracles happen. As my intuitive teacher would say, we have go go go all the time. We want to fix it. We want to cure it. And we need to retrain ourselves to bring up the goddess energy right now. And I want everybody to go back in themselves, slow down and listen and trust their bodies and be in tune with nature and you can overcome and heal out everything.
Don't be scared of it. It is scary at first, especially when you've been so far out into your little pod in your world, drinking dead, circulating, municipal water, never going out to anything but a park, you know, there's you had your babies, it's in the hospital, all hooked up. Didn't even connect to your body's wisdom to have a birth or anything that nothing really came in naturally, you know, And go it's time for everybody to start getting back to trusting their bodies, going to nature , and quit trying to get into these mental fast, quick fixes that science has taken the boys.
The 1% boys are taking us to, and
Sarah Marshall, ND: it's like, you know, I follow some of the, I always mispronounce his name. It's Jamie Wheal and Steven Kartchner. I think of the flow genome project. And, and there's, you know, some amazing research being done about like how we drop into flow state. And that's kind of been, one of my passions is like tapping human potential, but not from the place of like circumventing the natural expression.
It's more like on, I don't even have the language because this is such a new areas. Like. Releasing human potential, but fully supported and nourished, versus draining ourselves. And I think that's a lot of, you know, what we deal with is, is just been so much external focus. You know, everything you listed too is like a lot of those things.
I think even there's some part of many of us that innately, we even kind of know having our baby in those circumstances, wasn't what we really wanted to do, but we weren't given any other great options or, you know, and then there's always that debate, like better living through chemistry. If I don't go that route, am I going to harm my kid?
Am I missing out on something? Is there, you know, we don't have good information about that, but like you said, whatever the heck is next for humanity. Let's hope, you know, things I've heard about, of this the sixth world or the age of Aquarius, the Dawn of whatever we're shifting into. And we're in the transition now, which is why everything seems quite so crazy.
We're in the pea soup, you know, when the Caterpillar becomes a butterfly, it completely dissolves into goop in the middle getting kinda goopy around here. Yeah. And...
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: like
Sarah Marshall, ND: it makes it challenging. But it is also interesting to see what's coming up in the younger generations and like their desire to just be human. Not even be male or female, but to just be human and to be connected to each other and how we connect. And, you know, that's been a big thing for me. Like the first six months of working with CFS diagnosis was just purely physical.
It was like, my body literally just said, you sit, still, timeout... That was like the whole communication. Then I did, I slowed way down. And then ironically, while I was slowing down, I produced a podcast, but it wasn't more work. This was like a creative outlet for me. And it balanced some things and it kept me connected to the root of the medicine and what really matters to me in the conversations.
But now I'm in the second phase of healing that's just pretty much started since January. And it's less about the physical. I have to still tend to those things. I got to tend to my diet, my sleep, my breathing, but I'm realizing, and what I kind of have gotten both from my naturopathic physician and also from my intuition is like, If I don't heed the warning, that's coming at me right now, physically, I'm going to miss a real opportunity.
And the warning is about exactly that being in nature, like living differently, like literally altering my lifestyle. And so that's in the works and I don't all know what that's going to mean. I've got some ideas, you know, I might be moving and putting myself into a new, physical environment that will, you know, that's my intention for that is to get me to a place where like my day-to-day living is more connected, but even if we can't pick our houses up and move, there are ways to do that in our daily life that just has to do with, like, I have all my clients do a grounding exercise and it's as simple as sitting on the floor.
Which we rarely ever do, but to get our butts down on the ground and like be grounded and, or it can be more extensive, like walking barefoot in the grass and Amanda is sitting on the ground right now. Like, you know, I mean, you guys can't see it, but trust me, she is
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: It’s part of the shift. Yeah. I've got pillows on the floor, in the kids room now for the office. I'm like, I've got to go back to me comfy. Good. But it's true. You can feel the ground and the earth and you can get to the magnetism that the earth is giving you. And no matter where you're at. It's so true.
Sarah Marshall, ND: Yeah. So that, you know, I can really get that as like. And it, it's interesting because you know, I, as an interviewer here, I get to ask a lot of people that question and how many people have been saying the same thing about tuning in and slowing down and rest.
And, and like a lot of people come to me still going really, are you sure? Is that, how much does that really matter? You know, but
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: I think it's because of the self care. They think self care is getting your nails and your hair done, going to the spa for the day when self-care is sitting down, going inside yourself and learning how to sooth, self-soothe to hold yourself.
You know, if that's literally hold yourself co brushing your hair relaxing and taking that time to listen to all your inner parts that could be screaming at you, like, fuck you. You're not listening to me. And we're literally like abandoning parts of ourselves when we keep staying in the mind and going, going, going.
And cause yeah, we have, we have all of the knowledge in our hearts. Us doctors are just guiding you with a few things, but it's still just to help, help you get to the same place. And you know, the real work is Right back into ourselves and that's what we're all getting gimme told to do right now and
Sarah Marshall, ND: this whole year and it's not over yet and it's a big, it's been a big sit down and think about what you've done. But it can be in such a loving and compassionate way as well though, you know? Yeah. So what's next for you? We, you're in works on a book...
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: So, yeah. Now it's, you know, spring summer, all the seeds of the winter are starting to burst right. Going into the flower, the emotional sides. And I am the, the book, well, and then a podcast rebel doctor, because we, I just am excited to get, and I'm good at getting more invites for guesting, just because I'm saying different things about what's going on here in the United, the Sharona stay on dynamic and how much worse this really is when we keep looking at fixing things from the mind and the mental male way and seeing if we can get people backed into.
Taking, taking charge. And so that's what the podcast will be trying to help answer. And just talk, take on those subjects that people aren't talking about. I know one we were talking about is, you know, women being able, some of these are like teaching these kids that think that taking Molly and every, all these drugs they're doing now, you know, in ways to help balance that out.
So they're not like suicidal afterwards. You know, women being able to know all the alternatives say because all we have for sex protection is killing us to take oral birth control pills. No, that's not right. We're not connected to you. You can't even lose weight. All my women that are like so well, I want to be perfect.
And it, all these things, and I'm like, Oh, you have to at least feel your own hormones. We have to bring that on board for you to naturally move anything properly of while at surgery. So that is definitely exciting and then thrown out some courses and it helped people fine tuning my Bulletproof, your gut course, cause I'm big on, on the gut stuff.
And then I'm reaching out to the more of the Marfans community. I've got a formulate, a new product. There was So something that was out there from Metagenics and they pulled it and it was the only thing that was going in and stopping these MMPs Metallo matrix proteinase from breaking down or extra cellular matrix actually found it. And I could never get any of the hell's deets and these big researchers and Marfans connected over to the naturopathic world. You know, there needs to be more bridges.
Sarah Marshall, ND: That's true in so many communities
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: bridge builder. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I will do it. So I'm looking at, and maybe a formula it's going to be like the loose goose for the loose women. Pump that some of these things, I know a lot of my women are crying about prolapses or urinary bladder leakages, and, you know, just kind of bring it up. Some of these things are with the sex stuff. The fact that you can like throw in a vitamin C or boric acid tab and that'll help kill off all of the sperm.
And you know that with the rhythm method can be a real natural way to help guide things or, Oh, you didn't have your period, a couple of herbs that can help you, you know? So talk about these things that us old herbal witches know, and then passing on to each other.
Sarah Marshall, ND: But we haven't been really able to go public with it in that same way
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: core in the past. Yeah. So I am excited too. I went through this thing with just. When I got censored at the beginning of COVID about sharing herbs, you know, and a lot of us naturopaths did and then there were some new laws to make sure we didn't, that were being watched by the FTC. Right. It really hit my past lives have been burned at the stake.
And I'm like, I can't talk about this again. And then I just was able to rip that off and heal it. And now I'm like, all right, nobody can shut me up. Now I'm going to create my own podcasts and talk. Yeah,
Sarah Marshall, ND: I'm right here. Those, you know, it was interesting. I'm like, well, that slipped out of my mouth. We're talking about it now.
You know, and, and I don't think everybody is aware, but it was a big deal for the naturopathic community when COVID first hit that a lot of us were putting out some really helpful, useful guidelines that goes back 250 or more years has clinical research has plenty of backing. I had a sheet out there. I had a whole how to guide.
And many of us got censored. And if we didn't, we should have. Mine slipped through the cracks, I was a small enough fish, but, you know, really, I just had to make it a Google document that was, was like by invitation only. And I wasn't able to do it, you know, more publicly, which is just, you know, I, I get it on one side and I understand the public health conversation, but on the other side, it's like, really, that's where we're at.
As a world, we have affordable, cheap, easy solutions that have got scientific backing that you can buy at the grocery store, but we're not allowed to talk about that. And that was kinda crazy to go through that and to recognize. So I do think, you know, I mean, I should do a whole nother podcast on the conversation about how much rumor mill and lack of information there is about saying that alternative medicine and herbal medicine is not scientifically backed and that's actually incorrect. And then we'll actually deal with conventional medicine isn't as scientifically backed as people think it is, or no, that's the whole other side of it.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Oh yeah. Yeah. That's a good Ted talk, looking at all the JAMA articles. Oh yeah, they were pushed on in, everything's just sponsored by an agenda.
Sarah Marshall, ND: We would like to just say evidence-based medicine referring to certain types of clinical trials and studies and that, and that's a good place to look, but there's just still so much bias and politics in it.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Herbs and we're individual medicine, they'll take the wrong herbs, the wrong dose to the wrong people. And then say it doesn't work. You guys didn’t even talk with an expert who understands how to work with herbs.
So it's like, they don't even want to have that. Some don't want to have that conversation. The other ones are like, Oh dude, you guys know what you're talking about. We need a little bit. And it's like, well, you got to reverse your thinking on how you're looking at the body. And that is how, how to unlearn is definitely a huge set. It's a time for sure. But,
Sarah Marshall, ND: I’m just a little… go ahead...
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Oh, Wikipedia has had us locked down for what a year now that says we're all quacks and we can't even go in and change it, you know? So it's just like,
Sarah Marshall, ND: There’s still a lot of that misinformation out there and, and it's, yeah, it's more, it's more of a cultural conversation than reality base.
And like, you know, one of the ones I get all the time, cause I prescribe a lot of homeopathy and then I'll get pushback of homeopathy isn’t scientific. And pub med is a very common public document database of medical science research. And if you just put in the word homeopathy, it's like over 6,500 articles come up. 6,500 articles on pub med, just, you know, just put that word in and then there's other surgeries and other pharmaceuticals you can drop into pub med, you'll get 50 references, a hundred references.
So it's like, and I realized this is a broad, I'm just throwing that out there. But like, that's just stuff we say, we just keep saying, Oh, it's unsaid. No, it's not, it's not actually unscientific at all and, and we just keep repeating that and it's not based in reality. And then we'll also just blanketly assume all the due diligence has been done for medical trials.
And often that's a six week maybe at best 12 week drug trial. Most people are on medications for a minimum of 12 weeks and usually up to like 10, 15, 20 years. And that we're only just now figuring out, like, what is all of this Ritalin that our generation was given in a childhood? How does that really impact people long-term when we're only now starting to figure that out as those kids from the eighties are now 40 and you know, things like that. So. A future podcast coming to a town near you is, you know, that world, but it's a dangerous territory. I have a lot of opinions about it and I have a lot of things I'm willing to be wrong about people want to bring it back to me, but it's tricky to have those conversations and that's, you know, so if you do it and I do it and we keep doing it, it's going to open up, even if it's opening up the dialogue.
So what if I'm wrong? But at least now we're talking about it. So like, I'm okay with that. And that's what I had to get over in the podcast was my own ego, wanting to protect itself and be like, what if you get backlash? What if people hate you? You know? And I was like, okay, but I'm willing to stick my neck out there and potentially say something really dumb or something I regret, but it gets us talking about it.
And that's now more important to me grown past that, you know, into that willingness.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Yeah. Good, good, good. It is huge. I thought that with the vaccine, all right, everybody's doing the experimental product and I'm like, Nope, I'm going to push out all my concerns here. And, you know, I got tons of backlash. Of course from our own colleagues are the strongest and against that.
And and, and I had a good conversation with the best years. And she was a teacher and immunology up there, but he's not a naturopath. Right. And so you can tell where he was different. I'm like that's training, you know, but we were, he was having a nice conversation with me and, and that the, the auto-immunity you know, like the arts doesn't really happen.
And I'm just kind of like, this is a biologic. Do you can't tell me that when I've been listening to Dr. Paul Anderson for years, show us how confused the immune system gets after one dose of Humira. Now we've got this M RNA medical product going in. Ah, I see. Yeah. And a bit of, not only are we seeing a lot of immediate, but there's going to be were
Sarah Marshall, ND: because I think you and I have a lot where we agree on it and it's not a matter of opinion.
And in my circumstance personally, I chose to get the vaccine and in your circumstance, you can choose not to. And actually I think you and I have a lot of similar scientific rationale around it. So it's like, but we, you know, we can get into dialogues about it and explore. And that's what I've done with each of my clients has been on a case by case basis in the conversation.
And I usually don't get on the public health bandwagon about vaccines. And in this case for COVID now in the pandemic I chose to of knowing my vaccination could make a difference for hundreds of people around me and choosing that to be one of my reasons, but it was a very personal choice, you know, and, and I don't doubt that we will see, I mean, anytime we've done any significant medical intervention, antibiotics, steroids, inhalers, you know, all of that.
There's always, there's always a cost. I'm not living in the world that there's not a cost. It was just a cost benefit analysis for me personally. And then we see, and we're gonna, you know, find out
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: and that's where, if there's any risk, we have to be able to consent to it. And that's where I hope it doesn't go on to that, that level.
Cause then that's just, again, next level of pharma, government overreach. And it's just, you know, and I really got bald when the MMR, when the measles was going around and. And I feel they were testing the waters there because they were able to push some mandations through and, and they made so much bloody money.
So, you know, it's just like, Ugh. I know medicine. And that whole educate people that this has been going on this cross connection with them since the late 18 hundreds
Sarah Marshall, ND: If we aren’t willing or able to discuss the dark side or even just the failures, like we can't learn. And that's the part that I think I haven't yet now talking to you, I'm like, okay, maybe it's time, I'm getting more willing and bold to find the way to talk about that because I think it's important. Like, I mean, we say it all the time, but if, if airplanes. And the airline industry operated like the medical industry, nobody would ever get on an airplane ever. I mean, nobody would be willing to do that. And yet we go walk into urgent cares and hospitals all the time, blind faith.
And then, but there's this, there still is the ivory tower and it's in the naturopathic medicine too. We're, we're guilty of it, of being in the ivory tower. And we don't want anyone to question us and we don't ever want to find out we're wrong and we don't want to ever, you know, and it's like, but man, that's.
Yeah. Anyways, the whole thing, I, at some point, we're going to have to wrap this up somewhere though, because you and I can do this all day.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Oh wow. My God,
Sarah Marshall, ND: Amanda. Thank you so much. We're going to have all your information for people to be able to get ahold of you and follow up on what you're up to and keep us posted when the book comes out. We'll have you come back and talk about it cause I want to hear more and thank you for everything you do.
And all the people you're making a difference for and to talk about, you know, a subject that. There are a lot of people that deal with hypermobility issues and it's not something that's often thought of in that same way. So it's awesome to be able to highlight that and, and have people recognize there might be further investigation is important.
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Another dark area to shine a light on. Thanks Dr. Marshall for doing it again.
Sarah Marshall, ND: until we get to do it again!
Dr. Amanda Hoffman: take care.
(music)
Sarah Marshall, ND: Inspired by the success of Heal (we are now a community of over 4,000 incredible listeners) we will be launching some courses and workshops in 2021. Yes. That number keeps growing! Thank you guys. And yes, I record a new outro each episode, just seeing if you're still paying attention. Be the first to know about them and other bonus tidbits of knowledge by joining our mailing list at SarahMarshallND.com.
Thank you to today's guest, Dr. AmandaLynn Hoffman for her courage and her laughter. For a full transcript and all the resources for today's show, visit SarahMarshallND.com/podcast. Special thanks to our music, composer, Roddy Nikpour, and our editor, Kendra Vicken. And as always, thank YOU for being here.
We'll see you next time.